Gentlemen, Start Your Plug-Ins: How does 500 miles a gallon sound to you?

WSJ ^ | 1/1/2007 | R. JAMES WOOLSEY

[Uncledave]

An oil and security task force of the Council on Foreign Relations recently opined that "the voices that espouse 'energy independence' are doing the nation a disservice by focusing on a goal that is unachievable over the foreseeable future." Others have also said, essentially, that other nations will control our transportation fuel--get used to it. Yet House Democrats have announced a push for "energy independence in 10 years," and in November General Motors joined Toyota and perhaps other auto makers in a race to produce plug-in hybrid vehicles, hugely reducing the demand for oil. Who's right--those who drive toward independence or those who shrug?

Bet on major progress toward independence, spurred by market forces and a portfolio of rapidly developing oil-replacing technologies.

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All this is likely to change decisively, because electricity is about to become a major partner with alternative liquid fuels in replacing oil.

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Utilities are rapidly becoming quite interested in plug-ins because of the substantial benefit to them of being able to sell off-peak power at night. Because off-peak nighttime charging uses unutilized capacity, DOE's Pacific Northwest National Laboratory estimates that adopting plug-ins will not create a need for new base load electricity generation plants until plug-ins constitute over 84% of the country's 220 million passenger vehicles.

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Once plug-ins start appearing in showrooms it is not only consumers and utility shareholders who will be smiling. If cheap off-peak electricity supplies a portion of our transportation needs, this will help insulate alternative liquid fuels from OPEC market manipulation designed to cripple oil's competitors.

[Gunny Gene]

And I suppose farm equipment can be made to run on batteries? NOT. Or semi trucks to bring the groceries, and everything else to your city? NOT. Airplanes? NOT. Ships? NOT (although they could be nuclear or sail, or even oared - anybody up for a job rowing a freighter?).

[PSYCHO-FREEP]

Ok, now for the "Know it all" info;

The issue of all electric vs. hybrid (electric w/on board small gas engine to charge batteries) has been explored many times over. So far, not very good.

Hybrids are VERY expensive, because of those pesky batteries, huge amounts of weight to make those batteries and powerful enough electric motors, and the severe loss of efficiency trying to convert torque/shaft energy into electrical energy.

Then we must deal with the short life of high capacity batteries. (Not to mention the difficulty of dealing with their disposal or the harmful byproducts they produce)

Now the issue of an all electric car? Take the issues associated with the battery component and we must remember to increase their capacity/short comings by a factor of about ten.....

But I do love my Off Peak Electric heat that I enjoy so much in my home. (Currently much cheaper than gas or oil)

[MississippiMan]

Don't let the bigwigs at Nascar see this.. Lots of Pit stops add so much to a race. :-)

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LOL, your post evoked a mental image of an all-electric Nascar: no thunder, just a faint electric whine and the hiss of rubber meeting road.

MM

[Gunny Gene]

I take it that you would not be willing to cut back on your life style then? That is at the root of the problem isn't it?

[backbencher]

"You are correct - and as soon as somebody invents a battery that works, I will happily buy one."

Toyota backs up their batteries with a 10 year or 150,000 mile warranty.

SO BE HAPPY, AND BUY ONE!

[PSYCHO-FREEP]

See #32 That pretty much explains what I'm getting at....

But we respect your effort and you know how this Forum has a way of completely destroying a good idea!

[taxed2death]

"Shhhhhhhh... Do not mention this fact about the extremely high electrical bill if we use electric cars.
_____________________________________________________________

Here in FFLD county CT we're staring into a 58%+ electric rate increase in the next 6 months. One business up the street just fired two workers and purchased a $12,000.00 diesel generator and is going "off the grid".

Plug-ins will never be purchased here in the foreseeable future unless we get cheap affordable electricity.

[SW6906]

Let's see: with the environmentalists stopping the setting up of windmills, demanding that dams be removed from rivers, wanting mining for coal stopped (and Bill Clinton locking up our largest coal reserves in a refuge), not allowing drilling for natural gas, exactly how are we going to generate all of this electricity?

I'm serious.

[PSYCHO-FREEP]

Don't forget that pungent odor of OZONE in the air!

[PSYCHO-FREEP]

I'll SEE it when I BELIEVE it!

[tubebender]

Did you just Ping me?

[Eaker]

An electric car wouldn't mean a few hundred dollar electric bill, but at least a $1000 one during the summer (Since A/C alone was $600/month last summer).

We have the same bill and they don't charge less at night.

That concept is BS.

[BIGLOOK]

Consider the investment in the hardware to the home owner necessary to recharge an electric vehicle daily or every other day.

Overcharges damage batteries and batteries ain't cheap. There will have to be a monitoring/ timer system in the recharge package.

Off peak hours will not be off peak. Your electric bill will show the errors in your cost saving plan.

Will charging your car's battery while at work become part of your benefits package? Discuss that with management.

Occasional power outages may result in additional days off from work which will impact productivity and loss of earned vacation time and a rise in convenience stores in your neighborhood.

Car thefts will decline, battery theft will become part of our lexicon.

But all in all, it's good for the environment.

[NormsRevenge]

Nope, not me.

Happy New Year! :-)

This engine don't Ping.. It doesn't use a fossil fuel. :-}

[Atlas Sneezed]

How do they figure 500 miles per "gallon" for a vehicle that doesn't consume "gallons" of anything?

[Erik Latranyi]

So what you are telling me is this:

1) I have to trade the OPEC Cartel for Monopolistic Electric Utilities.

and

2) I have to trade free market oil for gov't regulated electricity (gov't controls both supply and price).

You don't have a right to call yourself a conservative if you support this.

[tubebender]

Do you deny you made this statement and used my name in vain... Maybe they can cook something up like that, ya can have granny or passengers crank while gramps drives:-) >:(

Getting back to selectric cars, my local Ford dealer has one in his collection that was mfgd in the teens or earlier...

[decimon]

...most don't know that when a bettery dies in the winter, it's usually because it took a beating during the summer

Summer kills them, winter buries them.

[RightWhale]

There are not enough threads on the CFR. We can go through thread after thread about the North American Union and not a mention of the CFR. Are they irrelevant anymore, or is it us?

[NormsRevenge]

I see who the 'cranky' one is in your clan. ;-) lolol

I remember pushing the buttons my uncle's old Chrysler transmission or such,, now those were cars. big clunkers.. it'd take a lot of juice and batteries to get them to roll. :-)