Two parties in the pews (Rick Warren, Barack Obama, Sam Brownback and AIDS Redux)

Boston Globe ^ | 31 December 2006 | Alan Wolfe

[shrinkermd]

THE DEC. 1 appearance of US Senator Barack Obama at the World AIDS Day summit signals one possible, and hopeful, future for American politics. The summit, hosted by best-selling evangelical preacher Rick Warren, was itself significant; who would have thought 20 years ago that evangelicals, who then barely acknowledged the existence of AIDS, would now be leaders in calling public attention to its ravages -- particularly in Africa?

[shrinkermd]

This is liberal Alan Wolfe's take on the conference. His conclusions are his own.

[j_tull]

But we are unlikely ever again to be told that one party stands for faith and that the other is ungodly.

Wanna bet?

[Recovering_Democrat]

...who would have thought 20 years ago that evangelicals, who then barely acknowledged the existence of AIDS, would now be leaders in calling public attention to its ravages -- particularly in Africa?

This guy is truly ignorant of evangelicals. Christians have been reaching out to people suffering from AIDS for years--the first time I heard about it was from a Christian artist named Steve Taylor and that was about 13 years ago. And he didn't talk about it like it was something NEW!

Secondly, President Bush has been in office for seven years and HE has been talking about helping the african sufferers of AIDS nearly since the beginning.

Alan Wolfe's idea of evangelicals is limited and that is too bad: if he opened his eyes and heart, he would see more than what he currently perceives.

[sine_nomine]

I hope Rick Warren becomes an open Democrat. He looks like Satan to me. Anyone else share that impression?

[shrinkermd]

Yes, and something else neither he nor most understand about Evangelicals. Seldom does the pastor take political positions. In my Evangelical church-never.

It is assumed you will act in public and political life according to your spiritual convictions. It is also assumed that in the real world other people may have quite different views than yours and still be meritorious and fine people.

Intolerance in these matters is rare face to face but there seems to be something about anonymous posting, especially on FR, that brings out a rage against differences that would make Hamlet's death wish seem like the chuckle of a freckle faced boy.

I find this rage more disturbing than the differences per se.

[Bernard]

we are unlikely ever again to be told that one party stands for faith and that the other is ungodly

Talkin' and doin' are two different things.

[bboop]

Social Justice -- the key words for libs. I think Warren is a closet Democrat. Just a hunch.

[Carry_Okie]

He allowed Christians who have always resented the capture of their faith by right-wing politicians to rediscover that Jesus was an advocate for social justice.

I can't remember Y'shua talking about a "social justice" bureaucracy mandated at gunpoint.

Maybe I missed something.

[sine_nomine]

Someone posted that anyone who objected to a Democrat speaking at the church (Obama?) was excommunicated from the congregation by the appointed elders.

Also, anyone who says he is going to save the world is on my short list of self-inflated Mr. Toad of Toad Hall wackos.

[Boazo]

Was excommunicated Huh? Hadn't heard that.

[hinckley buzzard]

I hope Rick Warren becomes an open Democrat. He looks like Satan to me. Anyone else share that impression?

To me he looks like Big Al down at the used car lot. When I'm on the job, I wear a shirt and tie, just out of respect for the people I work with. I would think someone who purports to speak for the almighty God would show at least as much respect.

[Coldwater Creek]

I agree with the LIBERAL Alan Wolfe's take on Rick Warren.

Extremely unfortunate that he is right on the money. No pun intended.

[sine_nomine]

A shave wouldn't hurt. Going on TV unshaven may be very Hollywood, very gay, but it really makes someone look like Anwar Sadat, making we wonder.

I knew about Hinkley long, long ago. Never been there.

[Coldwater Creek]

Something that you might not know about Evangelicals, is that a group of leaders went to Ronald Reagan and told him that if he would run again, they would see to it that he won. That is exactly what happened.

[Coldwater Creek]

Isn't that the truth? Our Pastor tried that, and was stopped in his tracks.

[Tax-chick]

None of this suggests that Rick Warren is becoming a Democrat; Obama shared the podium with Senator Sam Brownback, a conservative Republican. Nor does it mean that Warren can anoint the next Democratic nominee for president;

To me, it suggests that all three of them have moved to Planet Zongo.

Brownback lost me completely by doing this ... not because he appeared with Warren (on whom I have no opinion other than "Weight Watchers, honey") and Osama, who is beneath notice ... but because it indicates that he believes additional promiscuity will stop the spread of AIDS.

That's irrational, and contrary to the empirical results in Africa. I can't support a candidate who believes in continuing the same failed policies.

[gotribe]

All you politicians, please take your filthy hands off my religion! These b******s disgust me.

[Getready]

Wolfe is director of the center that studies effect of
religion on public life at Boston college. No?
Did you expect him to think/see differently?
Last time I checked, God didn't really need our institutions to
carry out His will.
Just a publicity stunt which benefits all around the event.
Obama looks conciliatory toward "religious" people of the
Christian persuasion, Warren looks like he wants to sell
more books and influence the Dem's. That's the dark view.
It is possible that they really care about AIDS, but guys,
you be a bit late!
This kind of weak publicity may not be to effective to stop the
transfer of virus in the back alleys, houses of prostitution,
bath houses, private rooms, needle parks, sex orgies, etc.
What a pathetic offering of hope. What goes on the individual
hearts of men and women is what keeps the virus spreading.

[shrinkermd]

The real question here is Jesus a Republican? Pastor Warren has said nothing on this issue and I doubt he will. Ditto for Alan Wolfe.

It is a question that one can only answer for oneself unless the person has spoken otherwise. Anything else is but a variant of name calling.

As far as I am concerned Jesus is not a Republican. I doubt if that is his purpose for us. If we are indeed saved by grace rather than works such a position surely makes sense although one can anticipate disagreements.

Before you all answer and condemn too quickly I have a short story for you. I spent decades doing forensic psychiatry in jails, state and federal prisons as well as assessing for trial on the basis of criminal responsibility and competence to stand trial.

Being a friendly sort I would try to make contact with those being evaluated. If I were successful I would as a mater of routine find out their values. Many of the interviewees were hard core criminals with heinous offenses.
When I asked about political views I was always taken back by two responses--the high number of Republicans and the sincere desire if they had it to do over again they would be a law enforcement officer.

I was also pleasantly surprised by finding many of the most serious and longest stay felons routinely showed considerable compassion and help for others.

I am uncertain what all of this means but not everything we say is congruent what we really are. In this sense it is quite possible for an Evangelical pastor to vote Democrat and have sincere and laudable reasons for doing so. Politics is such that no one can find a politician that agrees 100% with 100% of what one holds dear.

That is the human condition. I hope Pastor Warren votes Republican but if he doesn't that is okay too. His real job is leading people to Christ and in this I think he succeeds and then some.

[tom h]

"But we are unlikely ever again to be told that one party stands for faith and that the other is ungodly. "

Seems to me that a single invite to Obama will not undo past, and future, voting records of the leftists that currently infest -- ahem, inhabit -- the Democratic party. We Christians might be dumb rural rubes [snicker ... don't tell them otherwise] but we're not that dumb.