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To: sageb1
The founders were not unfamiliar with religious strife. They too lived in dangerous days, and they chose to protect religious freedom.

Now there are those, some of whom are on this thread, who would throw away all the sacrifices that have preserved our freedom simply because their fear outweighs their love of liberty. I don't want them to prevail.

And while I am normally hesitant to quote-mine to prove a point, you *did* bring up the question of what Thomas Jefferson would have thought about the situation:

Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting "Jesus Christ," so that it would read "A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;" the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination.

-Thomas Jefferson, Autobiography, in reference to the Virginia Act for Religious Freedom

32 posted on 12/15/2006 8:18:43 PM PST by Professor Kill
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To: Professor Kill

I appreciate your reply. I would ask that you reread that same document and then make a determination as to whether or not Islam, as per the Qur'an and the Hadiths, as well as what history now knows of Muhammad would be considered by Jefferson to be "the wretched purpose of changing this master for that."

His Letter to Dr. Benjamin Rush (Washington, April 21, 1803) is most revealing in regard to his personal religious beliefs, as well as to the fact that he considered himself a Christian in the "true" sense; not that he believed in the mysticism surrounding the life of Christ, but that he thought Jesus brought to mankind the most important moral teachings of anyone in the history of mankind.

If one were to compare his thoughts on Jesus to his limited thoughts on Muhammad, it is easy to see that he considered them polar opposites. I don't think he was particularly crazy about paying jiyzah to the Barbary pirates either.

Then there is Samuel Johnston who said "Those who are Mahometans, or any others who are not professors of the Christian religion, can never be elected to the office of President or other high office, [unless] first the people of America lay aside the Christian religion altogether, it may happen. Should this unfortunately take place, the people will choose such men as think as they do themselves."

Scary thought, in my opinion.

Patrick Henry, of course, was opposed to Jefferson and afraid the Virginia legisture could be filled with atheists or Mohameddans who were unfriendly to liberty or to the morals of a free country.

John Quincy Adams was probably the most outspoken in regard to Islam:

"…he [Muhammad] declared undistinguishing and exterminating war, as a part of his religion, against all the rest of mankind…The precept of the Koran is, perpetual war against all who deny, that Mahomet is the prophet of God…the faithful follower of the prophet, may submit to the imperious necessities of defeat: but the command to propagate the Moslem creed by the sword is always obligatory, when it can be made effective. The commands of the prophet may be performed alike, by fraud, or by force."

He also made this comment: "The vanquished may purchase their lives, by the payment of tribute."

Joseph Story said "“ At the time of the adoption of the constitution, and of the amendment to it, now under consideration [i.e., the First Amendment], the general, if not the universal sentiment in America was, that Christianity ought to receive encouragement from the state, so far as was not incompatible with the private rights of conscience, and the freedom of religious worship.” He could not have made a similar statement in regard to Islam.

So yes, the founders lived in dangerous times and chose to protect religious freedom, but I maintain that their knowledge of Islam was limited and that few really thought America would be beseiged by it, although some did state such fears.

Islam is not a religion in the same way Judaism, Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism, etc. are religions. It is an ideological state with its own system of justice. It is incompatible with our Bill of Rights and with our Constitution.





34 posted on 12/15/2006 10:37:46 PM PST by sageb1 (This is the Final Crusade. There are only 2 sides. Pick one.)
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