Posted on 12/15/2006 9:08:45 AM PST by truthfinder9
"We can explore more on less money if we let private companies do the exploring."
Private companies do not explore, they seek profit. There is no avenue to profit in space at the moment, and if we do not learn more about space transportation, companies will not spend the money to develop the knowledge themselves.
"Besides, there is no real possibility that humans will ever live on Mars or any other planet. Put down the crack pipe."
I'm beginning to understand your position.
"The rest of us will do just fine right here in the environment in which we were DESIGNED to live."
Hm. So, don't modify you environment to be conductive to preservation of life? Don't try to live or work in an environment that is hostile, it's just too *hard*, is that your stance? By all means, stay here, humanity will be less fettered without you.
Liberals like the 1967 Treaty. But, the Treaty means we can't go out and get real jobs in private space development not only because are there are none, but also and mainly because we can't create them.
For an agency with no profit motive, it really is pretty lean. I didn't mean to imply it wasn't bloated, rather that it is one of the least offenders.
Don't know what your perspective is re: the non-profit angle, all I can see everyday is two whole 8 ft. high bookcases filled top-to-bottom with worthless BS paperwork NASA required for this item we built....I can't throw it away either.....
The devastating 1755 earthquake but a big hurt on this. Designers are sooooo 1754.
The problem is in trying to deal with a gov't bureaucracy. I myself have created some of that paperwork. But, the worst and most bulletproof paper of all the the 1967 Treaty, which is only a couple of pages. It seems slightly odd for NASA to have these programs to aid the private sector in business opportunities in space development when the opportunities are mostly on gov't contracts. Not my idea of private sector development, and Rutan is not immune to the lure of gov't contracts.
The 2007 ISDC which will be held in Dallas with my club as the host has as its theme, 2007 The New Frontier.
As a historian I can tell you that the Frontier thesis goes a long way in explaining our society and civilization's success.
Why were covered wagons built? Why was the call: "Wagon Trains West!", Why did we fill up the continent between 1776 and 1876?
The answer is simple. The US government offered land grants for exploration. It funded roads and then railroads to carry the people and luggage Westward. It fostered industrial development by offering incentives for INDUSTRIALIZATION!
Yeah exploration and scientific discovery is nice but if you want to really impact our society, indeed all of humanity, then we must prioritize with Space Exploitation first and Science can occur along the way to the stars.
Jefferson thought we would fill up America in 1000 years, which he thought was fairly rapid. But 100 years? Things move fast when conditions are right.
My perspective is that NASA is massively under-funded for what it does, but it still does something, actually produces something other than government employees waiting for retirements to kick it. I resent the stacks of paper, too, I see the same stacks hidden behind file drawers as I walk to my cube every morning. It is a bit digusting, I must admit.
But I find it more disgusting to give up.
Here's another perspective, and a true story:
I have a small consultancy business, and I've taken recent steps to build it up and expand. One way was to buy an up-to-date copy of AutoCAD. I can't tell you how much I racked my brain and agonized over the decision, because the software is very expensive for a little company like mine, and my customer base had not yet grown.
I could have said: "limp along with what you've got, grab those bootstraps, don't spend money you don't have, etc." But I bought it anyway, the future uncertain. Well, other than I would just spend the money another way...
Guess what? It did indeed pay off! And the clients I do have now are not even the types I thought I might have acquired when I started.
Like the forts and covered wagons of the Frontier era they would open up the Earth Lunar neighborhood. And....Ain't no Indians to fight!
Tax credits for this investment would see the money flow and we'd begin our out-migration Ad Astra!!
As originally proposed, the station was to be a valuable research facility and testing ground for missions to Mars. However, NASA and the government chose to forgo any commercialization and also turned it into an international WPA, among other things.
My point is these guys are going after one of the few friends they have. Yes, he sent an underfunded budget to Congress, but he sent one and supports the program. A lot of liberals and conservatives want to gut or end manned spaceflight, as you can see here. Supporters of the program shouldn't be trying to make enemies out of friends.
I believe there is serious money waiting for the opportunity to make serious investment in space development. Space tourism would not be space development but would be a cottage industry on the outskirts of the real happenings. It is a matter of scale. Space tourism--$10 billion. Space development--$10 trillion. The only thing they have in common is they will be private industry in space.
The President's Report on Moon, Mars and Beyond, section 3, says that the Treaty would strangle a nascent space industry in the cradle. That's an old expression brought into the space age. So far, for twenty years and more, the Treaty has done that, and so it will continue to do until it is repealed.
I'm not averse to modernization investment. I am, however, highly averse to needless expansion of paperwork and bureaucratic posturing, of which NASA has plenty. This problem became greatly exaggerated after the Challenger blew up, and new CYA paperwork procedures are a response to dumping NASA's earlier "optimistic program management" style (which I think worked well in the past.
And the Apollo Asteroids, Europa, Ceres, Titan, The Oort Cloud...toss all the worthless hamstringing treaties and private enterprise could take us there way faster than NASA ever could.
What is our GDP? $multi trillions probably. What is the equivalent for the entire planet? Five times that, I suppose. If we can establish actual commerce in space and start actual development of space resources, we should (not could, not might, but should) see the GDP doubled quickly. Perhaps the idea that earth's gross product, GEP, could be doubled or quintupled in a generation causes gastric distress to our overlords, so the Treaty keeps things controlled inside their imagination horizon.
I don't buy into the idea of a coordinated, deliberate world conspiracy to keep us barefoot down on the farm, but something in our nature as sentient beings sure gives the impression that there is such a thing.
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