Posted on 12/09/2006 9:31:30 AM PST by Zakeet
Me:True, but there was more to the emotions on our side than just the one emotion of returning home. They initiated attack -- we defended freedom.
All I ever said was that the genesis of American involvement in WWII cannot be summed up in a single saw....
I never said the the genesis of American involvement in WWII can be summed up in a single sentence. You should reread above what the poster said, and how I responded.
...as you have now proven with your expansive hysterics....
LOL! It's your expansive hysterical non-sequitur that continues...
Ping me when it doesn't.
I believe you are correct but I also believe many were not. I think I have that on a CD that I purchased from the History Channel. I will look it up.
Yes, I believe that is true. And didn't the Jews hunt down many and kill them?
"Have you ever seen modern Japanese and German pornography?"
Have you ever seen modern American or European pornography, of the S&M variety? Have you ever seen the sales figures for American and European pornography?
Would you ever dare to say that American or European pornography is a "window" into the "national psyche" of every in America, in the same way you are trying to stereotype that "window" as applicable to all Japanese.
Pornography may be a "window" into the psyche of those who read it. To generalize it, from the forms that exist in a nation or region to a "psyche" window of all persons in that region or nation, is how racist stereotypes are born.
There was a good Wall Street Journal article today, that reviewed the Japanese writer Haruki Murakami.
He mostly writes fiction, and mostly in a western style, but has become a very popular writer, even in Korea and China. He is one of the few modern Japanese writers who has written any major non-fiction work covering any Japanese atrocities during the war. Although, even he admits, that that non-fiction work is not that popular in Japan.
In the article, Mr. Murakami metioned two interesting things.
He said that in school (1950s and 60s for him), it was not that they were taught a sanitized version of the war, it was more like that period was simply omitted in the class room, even though it was covered in the textbook. He said he remembered leaving school for a vacation-break at the point where the history lessons were up to 1925, and being told to read the next few chapters while they were at home. But, when history lessons resumed, they started on the post war period and they were not asked about their readings on the period in-between. I can't say if his experience was typical.
He also had an interesting view of how he believes his countrymen see themselves differently than the Germans. He said most Japanese do not associate themselves with the war-time military rulers. While they did, and they do continue to, respect and revere the Emperor, they view the military rulers as a group who ruled over them, not a group they chose. Whereas, Japanese view the Germans as having popularly chosen Hitler. Murakami does not say that that is his view, only that it is a view he believes many Japanese have.
I guess it is hard for us, outside of Japan, to know how much of the image of Japan that the military rulers presented to the world - the nationalistic fervor - was "popular", outside of the militray clique and their cannon fodder, and how much was manufactured as it still is in places like North Korea.
" We lost a lot more than 6,000. The government still has not told us of all the losses there."
Good Lord. Tin Hat time. Bush's fault?
I was not stating matters of history or my point of view.
I was stating what the Japanese writer Haruki Murakami said he believes is a common Japanese perception of a difference between wartime Japan and wartime Germany; a view he believes most Japanese have. I was not trying to validate that perception, nor do I believe was Mr. Murakami.
No explanation is good enough for me regarding the pleasure and pride they hold, including for their Emperor, when doing such things. The Kamikaze are simply an extension of that dark side. If they still revere their Emperor much the same would they not again do the same? They may make up with fellow Vets but Japanese society as a whole has not faced and dealt with their actions. For the most part, all I have seen is how terrible we were to drop the bomb and what victims they were. And yes, this mentality is even held in our own country by those who believe we should not have dropped the bomb.
Would Japan be any different today, if we were again at war with them?
I don't think America ever learns the lesson that just below the smiles and with hands out to our aid, all countries hate us and the atrocities committed scream their hate very loudly.
We are literally selling our country for many politically correct objectives. China for example, will turn on us in a heartbeat if they ever have the opportunity to become the World Power. I hope the anti-war folks have not sold our preparedness.
War will never end we are in the world sandbox. Someone always wants to play King of the Mountain. Most cheat and the U.S. of A. is expected to be better than that. I am tired of turning the other cheek. I am tired of our own country putting our fighting men in prison for their discretions which seem pretty small in comparison.
Lets talk about Perl Harbor and the strafing the jap pilots did on helpless sailors in the water
First, who advocated either Japan or Germany having nukes, besides you?
Education and experience, as well as first hand experience, tell me that Japan and Germany are NOT the nations they were - nor do their people have the same world view as they did - "60 years ago".
In many ways, Japan has become a better ally and a nation more compatible with us than some of our European fair-weather "allies". Frankly, I would prefer Japan (2nd largest economy in the world) on the UN security council instead of the treacherous, third rate French.
"Mexicans want their territory back"
Spain, like many Europeans thought they could come to this continent and simply declare that their flag, their sovereignty ruled over whatever land they drew on a map, and that was all that was needed to make it "theirs".
The period between Mexican independence from Spain and the war between the US and Mexico was a brief 25 years. You could say that that war was actually a belated act following Spain's abdication of any claims in North America.
But, in fact, (1)neither the Spaniards or the Mexicans were ever a majority in most of the land north of the Rio Grand that either Spain or Mexico ever claimed; native Americans (which the Mexican ruling class never was and still is not) were the majority except in a few major Spanish or Mexican built towns; (2)actual Spanish administration of most of the land was non-existant, outside of a few fortified areas and where ever wealthy, politically connected Mexicans had made farms (someone had to pay someone to get a land grant from whoever claimed "sovereignty" in Mexico city), (3)government administration deteriorated when Mexico became independent, (4)resulting in the Mexican government ceeding most of the administration to the network of Catholic missions, which they then reduced direct support for from Mexico city; and thus, (5) by the time settlers in California declared its independence the Missions in California were in great disrepair, and non-Latin Europeans already outnumbered "Mexicans" (little did the settlers know that war between Mexico and the US had already been declared). When Texas fought for its independence there were as many "Latinos" fighting for independence as "anglos", which is why northen US citizens are always insulting many latinos in Texas who can trace their families to the fight FOR indepedence.
But, La Raza loves its myths.
I read that when Spielberg's 'Empire of the Sun' came out in 1987 he got an angry call from legendary Japnese filmmaker Akira Kurosawa who thought he 'overdid' the depiction of Japaneses atrocities in China.
He's been planning this pair of films for a while. Besides it's been done before with 'Tora, Tora, Tora'.
"Everyone was a victim"?
WHO FORCED WHOM INTO A BATTLE FOR THEIR LIVES????
I would note there are several little known memoirs of this sort. Everybody knows about Nichts Neues im Westen - All Quiet on the Eastern Front by Erich Remarque.
One that blows them all away is Le Soldat Oublie - translated as The Forgotten Soldier. Utterly riveting for any historian of the Eastern Front in Great Patriotic War of the Russians.
My only comment about Iwo, the Bushido warrior cult, the Nazis, etc. who caused so much demoniacal misery: None of these satanic movements went away until annihilated. ANNIHILATED. Good for us. Unfortunately, the same logic applies to the Islamonazis - and the morally equivalent mind of the American liberal will never wake up to that fact - only, perhaps, when the knife is literally at his throat (but I doubt it).
In terms of learning things, to "understand the Japanese and their excuses", is not to excuse them; and understanding other people and why they think as they do helps us address what they think with greater insight (insight and understanding are also not ACCEPTANCE).
Additionally, I have said nothing to "excuse" "the Japanese" for anything concerning WWII.
"No explanation is good enough for me regarding the pleasure and pride they hold, including for their Emperor, when doing such things. The Kamikaze are simply an extension of that dark side.
You say the words: "they hold"....,..."when doing such things"....and "The Kamikaze are", as if there are Japanese Kamikase running around today who are "doing such things".
"If they still revere their Emperor much the same would they not again do the same?"
To say that they still revere and respect the Emperor today, is not the same as saying "they still revere their Emperor much the same way . At the end of the war the Emperor renounced any claim to "divinity" and any direct operational role in or over the government. The Emperor is revered and respected today in a manner very similar to how most British regard their Queen, and the Emperor's powers are no greater either. Its a symbolic role , as is true of most monarchies today.
I have been to the Shrines for the Japanese killed in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, with Japanese. None of them in word or deed or emotion towards me tried to infer any guilt on me. I think most Japanese see the events there as a huge human tragedy of war.
"Would Japan be any different today, if we were again at war with them?
By what inconceivable circumstance would we be at war with Japan?????? France I could understand, today. Japan, not in hundreds of years.
"I don't think America ever learns the lesson that just below the smiles and with hands out to our aid, all countries hate us and the atrocities committed scream their hate very loudly."
Japan is the worlds largest donor of foreign aid and most of that aid has fewer strings to it than does alot of ours.
"We are literally selling our country for many politically correct objectives. China for example, will turn on us in a heartbeat if they ever have the opportunity to become the World Power. I hope the anti-war folks have not sold our preparedness."
China will take us to war over Taiwan; when it decides it is ready; which, in other words means, when American consumers have delivered enough dollars to buy the advanced Chinese military machine they are building. In my view it is not a matter of IF but WHEN.
Japan recently made a push to acquire nuclear weapons to counter North Korea. The reason is if North Korea nuked them it is unlikely America would nuke back for them. They are exposed and they know it. Japan is a virtual superpower and could develop rocket delivered nuclear weapons in days, but is barred from doing so having lost WW2.
I'm against Japan re-arming themselves because I don't think their sucker punch first strike disposition has been watered down in their genetics or culture sufficiently. Japanese are very outwardly polite but they are still a closed society and privately they still think of themselves as the master race. The general nation-wide taste for sadistic pornography is something to ponder.
The brain thinks in generalizations, that's how it works. It develops a feel for probabilities when making all decisions. People flip out when probabilities are applied to people because they don't like to be stereotyped. But I'm not the first to notice Japanese pornography in general is something odd. And Germany is not far behind. My concern is the general overall theme of it. There's something going on there.
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