[sam_paine]

I can remember when "Made in Japan" meant cheap and shoddy. Wasn't all that long ago.

Me too. It was 30 years ago when Jimmy Carter was crowing the death knell of America...

Do you remember when Sony was going to buy just about all of Manhattan? What happened to that? Do you remember when Mexico sold cheap painted maracas and coarse hand-woven woolen blankets?

They still do.

There are many on FR that, ironically, perpetuate the 'conventional wisdom' of the hate-America-first media.

On Iraq, the media lie. On China, though, the media put forth the truth? Please.

There are a few of us on FR that have actually worked in and araound and against Chinese companies...me personally in the semiconductor business. Of course, I'm no NY Times journalist with a journalism degree, but I can tell you my experiences.

Germany and Japan have detailed/cautious engineering cultures. Mexico and China have sloppy, short-term manufacturing cultures.

For what it's worth, I personally was just as concerned as anyone about where my job would end up, so I went across the ocean to find out.

After seeing it for years close-up, I came back much less worried, and much better suited to compete in the world knowing my enemy.

Don't get me wrong, I do indeed think China will stab us in the back at each and every opportunity. But I also learned that it's nothing personal--they do it to each other daily. Chinese (and Taiwanese) are Chinese first, communists or capitalists or Mings or Nationalists later. The Chinaman in the street is proud of his thousands of years of heritage, and if the government/dynasty needs to be overthrown, then it will. This is why the Taiwan reunification issue looks so wierd to us. Americans see it as a border dispute between two nations. They see it as a dinner argument among family. Does that make sense to you?

In the end, they think that they are culturally superior to everyone else on the planet, and the Bible may have said something about pride and falls. You yourself prove the rule that Americans are naturally proud, yet cautious about being so.

I heard a terribly leftist Russian journalist on CSPAN this weekend. Most of the callers were liberal America haters. But I caught one of his responses, "You Americans have an uncanny ability for self-criticism, but Putin assasinating Litveneko(sp?) was not America's fault!" Americans compete because we always assume there there must be a better way. This is our culture. This is not true in China.

Well, anyway, I could go through all the technical reasons in my field why they are not going to take over the world. But I hope to encourage you to take some time to really find out more about those billions that eat with sticks. Here is a completely one-sided look at how entry into the WTO could possibly be the final straw for Communist China (not Chinamen). It is a good read for anyone who thinks that China is naturally suited to be #1.

Thanks for letting me vent.

[lucysmom]

Germany and Japan have detailed/cautious engineering cultures. Mexico and China have sloppy, short-term manufacturing cultures.

And yet the Chinese have a long tradition of beautifully detailed and carefully executed art. Once China was the target of industrial spies from Europe hoping to discover the secrets of their manufacturing processes and materials.

...Chinese (and Taiwanese) are Chinese first, communists or capitalists or Mings or Nationalists later. The Chinaman in the street is proud of his thousands of years of heritage, and if the government/dynasty needs to be overthrown, then it will. This is why the Taiwan reunification issue looks so wierd to us. Americans see it as a border dispute between two nations. They see it as a dinner argument among family. Does that make sense to you?

Yes, it does. As one expert put it in an interview (sorry don't remember his name), From the Chinese perspective, the last 150 years have just been a string of bad luck; now they're tanned, rested, and and they're back.

Long Chinese history has given them a unique perspective on the transitory nature of ruling groups - dynasties come and go, the Chinese people and culture remain. In time the culture conquerors the rulers.

As I understand it, the Taiwanese and mainland Chinese have worked out a system of commerce and neither side is particularly motivated to seek a formal relationship between the two governments. It works well for them and they would rather not see government interference through formal agreements.

In the end, they think that they are culturally superior to everyone else on the planet, and the Bible may have said something about pride and falls. You yourself prove the rule that Americans are naturally proud, yet cautious about being so.

Yes, that attitude preceded their fall. It remains to be seen what lessons they learned.

But, the lesson is there for us too. Many Americans trust in what we assume is our natural superiorty (like China in the 18th and 19th centuries?) and are quick to label criticism as hate. The Bible also says the father who loves his son corrects him.

Here is a completely one-sided look at how entry into the WTO could possibly be the final straw for Communist China (not Chinamen). It is a good read for anyone who thinks that China is naturally suited to be #1.

Certainly Chinese Communism has changed since Mao and I'm sure the process of change is not complete. I don't know exactly how China will change, but I do think its foolish to dismiss China as a force to be reckoned with, both politically and economically in the future based on what it is now.

Thanks for letting me vent.

My pleasure. I appreciate your insight and thoughtfulness.