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To: Raymann

Got TONS more of this sort of HISTORICAL evidence but this should give you the basics -- assuming you have the desire to read it.

And here's something ELSE you'd better consider: If your RIGHTS are NOT GOD-GIVEN, about the only entity with the power to give and secure such rights is the STATE. And, since a STATE can take those rights back, you're on VERY SHAKY HISTORICAL GROUND.

Below find what a bunch of stupid old white guys had to say on the subject.


• “In the name of God, Amen. We, whose names are underwritten, the loyal subjects of our dread sovereign, lord King James, by the grace of God, of Great Britain, France, and Ireland, king, defender of the faith, etc., having undertaken for the glory of God and advancement of the Christian faith, and the honor of our king and country, a voyage to plant the first colony in the northern parts of Virginia; so by these presents, solemnly and mutually in the presence of God and one another, covenant and combine ourselves together into a civil body politic, for our better ordering and preservation and furtherance of the ends aforesaid; and by virtue hereof do enact, constitute and frame such just and equal laws, ordinances, acts. constitutions and offices, from time to time, as shall be thought most meet and convenient for the general good of the colony; unto which we promise all due submission and obedience. In witness whereof we have hereunto subscribed our names at Cape Cod the eleventh of November, in the reign of our sovereign lord King James of England, France and Ireland, the eighteenth and of Scotland, the fifty fourth. Anno Domini, 1620.”
The Mayflower Compact

• “We, greatly commending and graciously accepting of their desires for the furtherance of so noble a work, which may, by the providence of Almighty God, hereafter tend to the glory of His Divine Majesty, in propagating of Christian religion to such people, as yet live in darkness and miserable ignorance of the true knowledge and worship of God,...”
From the First Charter of Virginia

• A nation of well informed men, who have been taught to know and to prize the rights God has given them, cannot be enslaved. It is in the region of ignorance that tyranny begins.
Benjamin Franklin

“When the religion of a people is destroyed, doubt gets hold of the higher powers of the intellect, and half paralyzes all the others. Every man accustoms himself to have only confused and changing notions on the subjects most interesting to his fellow-creatures and himself. His opinions are ill-defined and easily abandoned; and, in despair of ever solving by himself the hard problems respecting the destiny of man, he ignobly submits to think no more about them. Such a condition cannot but enervate the soul, relax the springs of the will, and prepare the people for servitude. Not only does this happen, in such a case, that they allow their freedom to be taken from them; they themselves frequently surrender it.”
---Alexis de Tocqueville, “Democracy in America” (1840)


*I sought for the key to the greatness and genius of America in her harbors...;in her fertile fields and boundless forests; in her rich mines and vast world commerce; in her public school system and institutions of learning. I sought for it in her democratic Congress and in her matchless Constitution. Not until I went into her churches and saw pulpits aflame with righteousness did I understand the secret of her genius and power. America is great because America is good, and if America ever ceases to be good, America will cease to be great. (Alexis de Tocqueville, 1840)

FOURTH—AND FORGOTTEN AND NOT PC—VERSE OF NATIONAL ANTHEM
“O thus be it ever when freemen shall stand Between their loved homes and war’s desolation Bles’t with victory and peace, may the heav’n rescued land Praise the Pow’r that hath made and preserved us a nation Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just And this be our motto: “In God is our trust!””
Francis Scott Key

*There is not a truth to be gathered from history more certain, or more momentous, than this: That civil liberty cannot long be separated from religious liberty without danger, and, ultimately, without destruction of both. Wherever religious liberty exists, it will, first or last, bring in and establish political liberty. (Joseph Story, Supreme Court Justice, 1779 1845)


*"It is the duty of every man to render to the Creator such
homage and such only as he believes to be acceptable to Him.
This duty is precedent, both in order of time and degree of
obligation, to the claims of Civil Society. Before any man can
be considered as a member of Civil Society, he must be considered
as a subject of the Governor of the Universe." James Madison


*"Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political
prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports."
George Washington

*"The highest glory of the American Revolution was this: It
connected in one indissoluble bond, the principles of civil
government with the principles of Christianity."
John Quincy Adams


123 posted on 11/27/2006 1:15:19 PM PST by Dick Bachert
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To: Dick Bachert
If your RIGHTS are NOT GOD-GIVEN, about the only entity with the power to give and secure such rights is the STATE.

A flawed argument. The Founders were mostly Deists, and they believed in Natural Rights, not "God-Given" Rights. One need not believe in a Supreme Being in order to declare that your rights come from something other than the State.

125 posted on 11/27/2006 1:19:36 PM PST by Lunatic Fringe (Say "NO" to the Trans-Texas Corridor)
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To: Dick Bachert

I can throw a lot more at you but to be short (everyone is shooting at me on this thread) I'll just say look up natural rights.


148 posted on 11/27/2006 2:01:38 PM PST by Raymann
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