Posted on 11/17/2006 10:46:11 AM PST by TheKidster
GOLDEN, Colo. -- A judge has upheld a homeowners association's order barring a couple from smoking in the town house they own.
Colleen and Rodger Sauve, both smokers, filed a lawsuit in March after their condominium association amended its bylaws last December to prohibit smoking.
"We argued that the HOA was not being reasonable in restricting smoking in our own unit, nowhere on the premises, not in the parking lot or on our patio," Colleen Sauve said. The Heritage Hills #1 Condominium Owners Association was responding to complaints from the Sauves' neighbors who said cigarette smoke was seeping into their units, representing a nuisance to others in the building.
In a Nov. 7 ruling, Jefferson County District Judge Lily Oeffler ruled the association can keep the couple from smoking in their own home.
Oeffler stated "smoke and/or smoke smell" is not contained to one area and that smoke smell "constitutes a nuisance." She noted that under condo declarations, nuisances are not allowed.
The couple now has to light up on the street in front of their condominium building.
"I think it's ridiculous. If there's another blizzard, I'm going to be having to stand out on the street, smoking a cigarette," said Colleen Suave.
For five years the couple has smoked in their living room and that had neighbors fuming.
"At times, it smells like someone is sitting in the room with you, smoking. So yes, it's very heavy," said condo owner Christine Shedron.
The Sauves said they have tried to seal their unit. One tenant spent thousands of dollars trying to minimize the odor.
"We got complaints and we felt like it was necessary to protect our tenants and our investment," said Shedron.
The Suaves said they would like to appeal the judge's ruling but are unsure if they have the money to continue fighting. They said what goes on behind their closed doors shouldn't be other people's business.
"I don't understand. If I was here and I was doing a lawful act in my home when they got here, why can they say, 'OK, now you have to change,'" said Colleen Suave. "We're not arguing the right to smoke as much as we're arguing the right to privacy in our home."
Other homeowners believe, as with loud music, that the rights of a community trump the rights of individual residents. The HOA is also concerned that tenants will sue those homeowners for exposure to second-hand smoke and this could be a liability issue.
The couple said that they would like to unload their condo and get out of the HOA entirely, but they are not sure if the real estate market is right.
No "used materiel?" I know a guy who makes a fortune, dismantling the fixtures in old Irish bars and selling them to bars in the US.
Second, for most people (as evidenced by the premium placed by the market) those rules are not rights to be signed away, but rights to be gained.
Only if you're a fool.
The fact that you can call them voluntary is a real hoot.
Ah, I'm talking about left over salvage, maybe of different colors, textures and size. I saw a really unique plastic gallon wall awhile back.
Now, there's a cogent rebuttal. There have been zoning laws in every community I have ever lived in, right up to the city limits.
These laws have regulated things such as speed limits, mandatory sewer hook ups, "eyesore" property maintainence, noise proliferation, abandoned and non-functioning vehicles, trash and junk accumulation, running home-based businesses, and much more.
If you and your immediate neighbors desire to pay for an additional layer of self-imposed government, go right ahead. Some people feel a crying need to be told what colors are harmonious, what flags they may display and where they may change their spark plugs.
Call me a snob, but I have never lost money on a house and have loved the HOAS
It got the reply it deserved.
There have been zoning laws in every community I have ever lived in, right up to the city limits.
It never occurs to any of you all that there are things you don't know about, does it?
If I'm my property how is my smoking repellent to you?
You also might want to know that giving a rats ass about other people stops for me when they befoul my environment.
My smoking in my home or yard befouls your environment?
I actually find this entire issue to be hilarious. Yes the HOA has the ability to change the rules and if you buy into it you have to abide by the rules. What I find hilarious is that all of a sudden smoking is such a massive problem. It never ceases to amaze me the gullibitlity of the masses.
I don't know if the smoke or the smell would infiltrate other units like noise would, of course. But maybe it does.
<<<<
I'd be willing to bet they smoked on their patio and it drifted upstairs/nextdoor, wherever. I live in a detached house and smelled smoke the other day when outside; a workman next door was smoking behind the garage. It wasn't enough to be a nuisance, but I imagine in a condo it could be obnoxious if you lived above a couple of chain smokers and wanted to enjoy your patio or have your door/window open. HOA's are a pain, but when a guy next door wants to paint his house neon orange, they might come in handy.
Now if I could just find a way to get people to pay attention to my "NO TRESPASSING" signs.
Well , I don't smoke and the issue really doesn't affect me and isn't important to me. I don't trust lawmakers though. I figure I better support the smokers today because tomorrow it may be something that I like and enjoy.
This is the left moving in, a little at a time, on private property. They take away our rights, but make sure that we keep the obligation to pay taxes on our property.
Hey. I read Mother Earth , ok? :') Trust me. There is a reason behind new materials only around here.
You can be cold, can't you?
>>I'm not saying there should be no restrictions at all, especially if everyone agrees to them.
They all did, when they bought. They also agreed to the process for changing the rules when it is necessary to address an unexpected nuisance.
>What I find hard to swallow is that these HOA's have the power to steal people's property if they don't comply.
Without this, they would have no teeth. The key is not to violate them.
>>I believe one is a huge fool to give that power to somebody and I'd never do it. What I find hypocritical in what you said is that you demand the right as a property owner to ensure those who own the property for ever after you must concede thier rights as a property owner in order to buy the property.
Nothing hypocritical there. When the restrictions add value (as they ALWAYS do), it owuld undermine that value to have them disappear in a short time, or after someone resells his house.
>> Not only that but you are purposely making a strong effort to restrict the rights of others in order to turn a higher profit on the sale.
The developer is making every effort to make the property more attractive. What he is really saying (is this so complex?) is that he will protect you (me) the buyer against all these possible bad things that my future neighbors might do to reduce my property value or quality of life. Yes, those are restrictions.
We also have widespread restrictions on the right to commit general nuisances, and we all seem better off by this "restriction."
>>So again, it seems as though you are all for property rights as long as it benefits your wallet, and screw everyone else.
I leave it up to the OWNER what restrictions he wants on his OWN property, not busybodies who sound like Democrats.
Why should you or any outsider have the right to limit how a developer can enhance his value with restrictions?
>>Would you participate in a city plan using eminant domain so that you could acquire property from another private owner at a better price than what he is asking?
No, and WTF does that have to do with the issue?
You also might want to know that giving a rats ass about other people stops for me when they befoul my environment.
Translation: Nobody has the right to offend me or inconvenience me. If they do I'll destroy them. Grace is an inconveivable concept for me.
As long as it's not against state law to smoke, the HOA is SOL.
complaining that HOAs infringe property rights is like saying that FreeRepublic infringes free speech.
That I can agree with. Which is why I live in the middle of nowhere, my property is bounded by creeks and roads, and other than one neighbor across the road, my only neighbors are broiler/fryers. Yes, there are 170,000 of them at times, but they make no noise.
BTW, I grew up in NYC.
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