Can you be a Christian and firmly believe God used phyletic or punctuated evolution? I definitely believe so because such a belief is not a primary issue. It's a non-essential. The essentials are clear cut, but not everything is so clear cut as many try to make it.
Warren asked Cho if American pastors should be more open to praying for miracles.
I've already pointed out the interview web page doesn't list that question. Warren does ask: Do you think American churches should be more open to the prayer for miracles?
It's interesting that some people state Warren is sloppy but the statements they make about Warren are factually incorrect (i.e. sloppy). Some are blatantly incorrect giving the impression they were written for the purpose of deception. I'm reminded of Romans 2:21:
you, then, who teach others, do you not teach yourself? You who preach against stealing, do you steal?Perhaps Warren would say to his detractors:
you, then, who teach others, do you not teach yourself? You who preach against sloppiness, are you sloppy?I'm not saying anything other than it's ironic. Glass houses and all.
I think there would be a lot less concern over Warren if he wrote just a little differently without changing his thoughts.
Instead of saying:
Whenever God wanted to prepare someone for his purposes, he took 40 days.What if Warren said:
Sometimes God would use a 40 day period to accomplish some task or prepare somebody for his purposes.Some of what I'm seeing here appears petty.
It is very interesting that you're willing to examine Warren's books, his website, some people he's previously spoken with, but not the statement of faith at his church. Here is the statement of faith at Warren's church:
That's a solid statement of faith. It's what Warren believes.ABOUT GOD
God is the Creator and Ruler of the universe. He has eternally existed in three persons: the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. These three are co-equal and are one God. Genesis 1:1,26,27; 3:22; Psalm 90:2; Matthew 28:19; 1 Peter 1:2; 2 Corinthians 13:14ABOUT MAN
Man is made in the spiritual image of God, to be like Him in character. He is the supreme object of God´s creation. Although man has tremendous potential for good, he is marred by an attitude of disobedience toward God called "sin". This attitude separates man from God. Genesis 1:27; Psalm 8:3-6; Isaiah 53:6a; Romans 3:23; Isaiah 59:1,2ABOUT ETERNITY
Man was created to exist forever. He will either exist eternally separated from God by sin, or in union with God through forgiveness and salvation. To be eternally separated from God is Hell. To be eternally in union with Him is eternal life. Heaven and Hell are places of eternal existence. John 3:16; John 2:25; John 5:11-13; Romans 6:23; Revelation 20:15; 1 John 5:11-12; Matthew 25:31-46ABOUT JESUS CHRIST
Jesus Christ is the Son of God. He is co-equal with the Father. Jesus lived a sinless human life and offered Himself as the perfect sacrifice for the sins of all men by dying on a cross. He arose from the dead after three days to demonstrate His power over sin and death. He ascended to Heaven´s glory and will return again to earth to reign as King of kings, and Lord of lords. Matthew 1:22,23; Isaiah 9:6; John 1:1-5, 14:10-30; Hebrews 4:14,15; 1 Corinthians 15:3,4; Romans 1:3,4; Acts 1:9-11; 1 Timothy 6:14,15; Titus 2:13ABOUT SALVATION
Salvation is a gift from God to man. Man can never make up for his sin by self-improvement or good works. Only by trusting in Jesus Christ as God´s offer of forgiveness can man be saved from sin´s penalty. Eternal life begins the moment one receives Jesus Christ into his life by faith. Romans 6:23; Ephesians 2:8,9; John 14:6, 1:12; Titus 3:5; Galatians 3:26; Romans 5:1ABOUT ETERNAL SECURITY
Because God gives man eternal life through Jesus Christ, the believer is secure in salvation for eternity. Salvation is maintained by the grace and power of God, not by the self-effort of the Christian. It is the grace and keeping power of God that gives this security. John 10:29; 2 Timothy 1:12; Hebrews 7:25; 10:10,14; 1 Peter 1:3-5ABOUT THE HOLY SPIRIT
The Holy Spirit is equal with the Father and the Son as God. He is present in the world to make men aware of their need for Jesus Christ. He also lives in every Christian from the moment of salvation. He provides the Christian with power for living, understanding of spiritual truth, and guidance in doing what is right. The Christian seeks to live under His control daily. 2 Corinthians 3:17; John 16:7-13, 14:16,17; Acts 1:8; 1 Corinthians 2:12, 3:16; Ephesians 1:13; Galatians 5:25; Ephesians 5:1ABOUT THE BIBLE
The Bible is God´s word to all men. It was written by human authors, under the supernatural guidance of the Holy Spirit. It is the supreme source of truth for Christian beliefs and living. Because it is inspired by God, it is truth without any mixture of error. 2 Timothy 3:16; 2 Peter 1:20,21; 2 Timothy 1:13; Psalm 119:105,160, 12:6; Proverbs 30:5)
I want to stress that I don't agree with Warren on some things just as I don't agree with John MacArthur on some things, just as I don't agree with anybody 100% of the time. Who knows. I may vehemently disagree with Warren over some things, but what I've seen comes across as petty.
As the www.pastors.com breakfast interview with Cho documents...Warren did more than just read the book (are you being purposefully obtuse about this?) and talk about it online. He asked the occult practicing false teacher for his advice and prayer.
Is this the type of pastoral behavior and discernment called for in the NT?
In addition to talking about their books online, would you also have Darwin and several Secular Humanists give you Christian counsel and prayer?
So...you really think that Warren interviewing an occult practicing false teacher (Cho) and asking for advice and prayer for pastors and Christians is "petty"?
So...It is okay for pastors to associate with false teachers?
If you think that having an issue with this type of activity is "petty", I don't see us being very productive in our discussions on the other issues.
I knew about the wording of my question related to miracles...I wanted you to point out the inaccuracy of it again. It is interesting to see your standards when Warren isn't the author.
If Warren's standard of pastoral conduct was me, he would be much better off (partly because I'm not a pastor nor seminary trained)...but Warren's standard is Scripture - not me.
I will comment on the Saddleback statement of faith when you let me know what it says about associating with false teachers and the mishandling of Scriptures.
And...again, Saddleback's statement of faith has as much to do with Warren's actions as New Life Church's statement of faith has to do with Haggard's.
And...again, Warren didn't just say that God always used 40 days...He also used inaccurate examples (Noah, Jesus and etc.) and a distorted scripture passage (Romans 12:2, NLT paraphrase) in an attempt to support the false 40 days statement.
Your re-wording of the statement is better, though...maybe you should have been on The PDL editorial staff.
In fact as Warren has had recent, significant, additional problems with his words, actions and videos...maybe he could use another on his staff (What is his high-priced PR guy (Ross) doing anyway?).
Do you want to go to a different point or call it quits?
Have a good one.