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To: pby
On those pages, Warren states: "Whenever God wanted to prepare someone for his purposes, he took 40 days." This statement is not true...Look at Saul/Apostle Paul and many others.

The above is definitely stated in Warren's Purpose Driven Life on pages 9-10. While the above is correct (Warren's statement isn't literally true), it seems more of a bad example than anything else. It doesn't have any theological significance as Warren is, as I see it, merely using a bad example.

Would you have any issues with his statement if he instead wrote?:

Sometimes God would use a 40 day period to accomplish some task or prepare somebody for his purposes.

Read the examples that Warren gives (pp. 9-10) for transformation in 40 days - Noah, Moses, David, Elijah and Jesus. They are inaccurate, incorrect examples.

I'm sure you would agree God uses 40 day examples through-out the Bible. While no analogy is perfect, writers should try to use the best example possible. In what way are the examples inaccurate/incorrect? What do you see as the theological issue with the above?

I agree with you that Romans 16:17-18 can indeed be talking about false teachers. It just seems out of left field with the rest of chapter 16.

On these same pages, Warren also uses a badly distorted version of Romans 12:2 (The NLT). Compare the NIV, KJV, NASB, and NKJV with the NLT. The distortion is obvious and the meaning that Warren carries through his writing is incorrect.

Here is what Warren writes on Page 10 where he quotes a portion of Romans 12:2.

The Bible says:
I don't see a badly distorted version of Romans 12:2 from his example. From what I can tell, Warren is doing what he thinks is right in trying to reach the unregenerate when he uses language they're more likely to understand. He is using the common language of the time, much like the language of the Bible.

Unless you can explain why the above has some theological significance, the issues I've seen so far appear to be non-essential issues or issues of no theological significance. More than anything else they seem to be issues of style.

370 posted on 11/17/2006 7:40:49 PM PST by scripter ("If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone." Romans 12:18)
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To: scripter
Warren claims that The PDL "is more than a book: it is a guide to a 40 day Spiritual Journey that will enable you to discover the answer to life's most important question: What on earth am I here for? By the end of this journey you will understand the big picture-how all the pieces of your life fit together. Having this perspective will reduce your stress, simplify your decisions, increase your satisfaction and, most important, prepare you for eternity."

Those are bold claims! Is The PDL a guide to a 40 day Spiritual Journey? What is a Spiritual Journey? And given the boldness of Warren's above-referenced claim, should it contain any bad examples? Shouldn't it be held to a higher standard due to the fact that Warren claims that it is more than just a book?

And yes...there is theological significance. Should we be attributing facts to God about how He relates to us, and how he works in saving and sanctifying us, that are innaccurate?

Before Warren makes that statement, he states that "The Bible is clear that God considers 40 days a spiritually significant time period. Whenever God wanted to prepare someone for his purposes, he took 40 days:"

As you said, you are all about context. Is the context accurate here?

Warren says that "Noah's life was transformed by 40 days of rain." Wait a minute! Warren just said that whenever (which means always, btw) God wanted to prepare someone for his purposes, he took 40 days. How and why does Warren change from preparing someone to transforming someone?

What is the context here...preparation or transformation?

So in the example of Noah, how was Noah individually prepared and/or transformed by the 40 days and nights of rain?

Also, Noah and his family were on the ark for a year. The 40 days reference more relates to the time it took for the rain and waters to cover to the highest peaks, which was a time of judgement (not preparartion or transformation). How does the Bible say tha Noah was prepared or transformed in the 40 days of rain?

The other examples listed are similar in nature to this one...out of context (Jesus wasn't empowered in the desert, He was tempted).

And Warren has previously claimed that The PDL has been read by the Whitehouse, a Cuban dictator, professional sports teams, NASCAR teams, and tens of millions more...Given that it is not just a book, but a Spiritual Journey; How many testimonies have you heard to the fact that: all the pieces of life fit together, stress is reduced, decisions are simplified, satisfaction is increased and eternity is prepared?

More importantly, how many testimonies have you heard that stated that after reading The PDL that the person is no longer conformed to the pattern of this world but transformed by the renewing of their mind able to test and approve what God's will is-his good and pleasing will?

That is the content and transformation of Romans 12:2.

The greek text related to Romans 12:2 includes the words "Do not be conform any longer to the pattern of this world"...Don't you think that this is an important part of the verse that the NLT leaves out?

This is more than style related...this has doctrinal and theological implications.

373 posted on 11/18/2006 7:08:46 AM PST by pby
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