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To: scripter
You asked for specifics...I gave you specifics and they were not just guilt by association examples. But is there not guilt by association according to Scripture?

Romans 16:17: "I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them."

The Christian is directed to stay away from false teachers and their teaching for the following reasons:

1. To maintain the doctrinal integrity of the church (1 Tim. 2:6)

2. To protect the sheep from error which inhibits spiritual growth (Acts 20:28; 2 Peter 2:1-2).

Why does Warren not stay away from them (and why don't you have a problem with it)?

Specific #1 - Warren's Christless teaching to Synagogue 3000: This specific is documented by Spero News, Synagogue 3000 aims to increase Jewish Worshippers, Tuesday, October 04, 2005 (video of Warren at Synagogue 3000 can be seen on their website...go to it and see for yourself) - he apologizes for referencing the New Testament).

The headline reads, "Evangelical Christian Rick Warren, and mega-church pastor, advized Synagogue 3000, an umbrella Jewish organization pushing for synagogue transformation"

The article was posted on FreeRepublic as well (go there and see it for yourself).

Specific #2 - Warren's association with Cho, and Cho's occultic Fourth Dimension: This specific is documented by www.pastors.com, Rick Warren's Ministry Toolbox, July 25, 2001, Issue #17, Will The Next Generation Church Be On The Internet?, by Rick Warren.

It reads: "A few weeks ago, I had breakfast with David Yonggi Cho..."

Find it and read it for yourself (www.pastors.com/RWMT/printerfriendly.asp?id=17&artid=537&expand=1). Warren says that he has read Cho's book on miracles (The Fourth Dimension) and asks Cho how American Pastors could be more open to miracles. Warren also asks Cho to pray for American pastors.

Specific #3 - Warren's propensity to proof-text and twist/distort Scripture (take a look at the use of the Message paraphrase, John 4, in the PDL): This specific is documented endlessly, but more specifically see www.pastors.com, Issue #71, October 9, 2002, Purpose Driven Life: Worship that pleases God, by Rick Warren.(also p. 103, The Purpose Driven Life)

It reads: "God wants you to be yourself in worship. "That's the kind of people the Father is looking out for; those who are simply and honestly themselves before him in their worship ." (John 4:23, The Message)

In contrast to Warren and The Message, this verse in Scripture reads, "Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshippers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the worshippers that the Father seeks." (John 4:23, NIV)

As you can see, there is a vast difference and Warren distorts the passage with his quotation of The Message.

But...It gets worse! He quotes Gary Thomas, who uses Carl Jung psychology (Sacred Pathways, by Gary Thomas, pp. 22-29 - Carl Jung says that a demon spirit guide revealed, to him, the pyschological principles that he espoused), to identify nine of the ways people draw near to God..."

It is all documented...Check out the specifics for yourself.

Specific #4 - Warren's PDC directs to find the key to people's hearts, and their felt needs, to win them: This specific is documented in The Purpose Driven Church, by Rick Warren, p. 219.

It reads: "It is my deep conviction that anybody can be won to Christ if you discover the key to his or her heart...The most likely place is to start with the person's felt needs."

Specific #5 - Warren's disdain for the fundamentalist: This specific is documented via Larry KIng Live transcript in an interview with Rick Warren and Rick Warren's panel discussion at The Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life (www.pewforum.org/events/print.php?eventID=80).

"Now the word "fundamentalist" actually comes from a document in the 1920's called the Five Fundamentals of the Faith. And it is a very legalistic, narrow view of Christianity." (Rick Warren, The Pew Forum, Myths of the Modern Mega-Church)

"There are all kinds of fundamentalists, Larry, and they are all based on fear. There are Christian fundamentalists. There are Muslim..." (Rick Warren, Larry King Live)

These are all documented specifics, as requested. Ignore them, if you so desire...But don't say nobody ever gave them to you.

155 posted on 11/16/2006 3:59:19 PM PST by pby
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To: pby
Thanks for the information. I'll check it out. BTW, you were the second person to provide specifics as CDL beat you to it. And I'm not kidding when I say that as everybody else just runs away when asked for specifics.

But is there not guilt by association according to Scripture?

No... while I understand what you're saying, it's a logical fallacy.

158 posted on 11/16/2006 4:33:37 PM PST by scripter ("If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone." Romans 12:18)
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To: pby
In going back through some of your posts, you said:
Specific #2 - Warren's association with Cho, and Cho's occultic Fourth Dimension: This specific is documented by www.pastors.com, Rick Warren's Ministry Toolbox, July 25, 2001, Issue #17, Will The Next Generation Church Be On The Internet?, by Rick Warren.

It reads: "A few weeks ago, I had breakfast with David Yonggi Cho..."

Find it and read it for yourself (www.pastors.com/RWMT/printerfriendly.asp?id=17&artid=537&expand=1). Warren says that he has read Cho's book on miracles (The Fourth Dimension) and asks Cho how American Pastors could be more open to miracles. Warren also asks Cho to pray for American pastors.

I tried the URL you provided and it didn't work, but I did find this link: Breakfast With David Yonggi Cho And Rick Warren, so it appears they moved the link at their site.

Depending on the browser you're using, you can easily run a word search on the entire page for Fourth Dimension. From my search the book isn't mentioned. I've tried searching for Cho and then searching every page from the serach results and didn't find any references to the Fourth Dimension. If it's there I couldn't find it.

Also, Warren doesn't ask how American Pastors could be more open to miracles, but instead asks: "Do you think American churches should be more open to the prayer for miracles?" (It's the second to the last question.)

Warren does ask Cho to pray for American pastors. Here is Cho's prayer:

Heavenly Father, we thank you for many wonderful pastors and lay Christians in America. America is a strong foundation of Christianity through which the whole world received great blessings and benefits. We are now praying many, very rich blessings be upon each and every American pastor and Christian -- so that God may once again use America to send missionaries to the end of the world and to change the world for Jesus Christ. In Jesus Name I pray …

507 posted on 11/25/2006 11:55:48 AM PST by scripter ("If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone." Romans 12:18)
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