The GOP Triangulates

Slate ^ | Nov. 9, 2006 | Timothy Noah

[Lorianne]

Is a CO2 tax in America's future? ___ Two days after the election, a movement is afoot to achieve an audacious Democratic goal. The weird part is that the people behind it are Republicans.

In a Nov. 9 Wall Street Journal op-ed, former Bush speechwriter David Frum suggested that President Bush propose a carbon tax. N. Gregory Mankiw, former chairman of the Council of Economic Advisers in the Bush White House, suggested the same thing in an Oct. 20 op-ed in the Journal, and former Fed Chairman Alan Greenspan talked it up in late September. Harvard's Martin Feldstein and Weekly Standard contributing editor Irwin Stelzer like the idea, too. Slate "Moneybox" columnist Dan Gross took note of this unexpected GOP trend in an Oct. 8 New York Times column ("Raise the Gasoline Tax? Funny, It Doesn't Sound Republican").

On a purely theoretical level, it's not at all inconsistent for a Republican to advocate a carbon tax. Conservatives prefer taxing transactions to taxing income because it's a way to avoid progressivity; rich and poor get taxed at the same rate. (In his op-ed, Frum makes no bones about wanting to use the carbon tax to "split the opposition" and to lower taxes on "work, savings and investment.") Even libertarians recognize that if one person's activities impose costs on society as a whole (in this instance, by contributing to global warming), then that person ought to compensate society. This is what's known as a Pigovian tax, named after an English economist of the early 20th century named Arthur Pigou. Mankiw has pronounced fellow advocates of higher energy taxes, who include liberals like Paul Krugman, Robert Frank, and, most famously, Al Gore, the "Pigou Club."

[MeanWestTexan]

Someone tell me this is bullshit.

[rabscuttle385]

It's bullshit. Sadly, bullshit is usually what ends up being made law.

[The Sons of Liberty]

Is a CO2 tax in America's future?

I always new if the dims could find a way, they'd tax you for breathing.

[kinoxi]

Just hold your breath when the IRS comes a knockin that's all...

[MadeInAmerica]

Bwahahahaha, it's official folks. The GOP is now the DEM party and the DEM party is now communists.

[Leg Olam]

"carbon tax"

Got to get rid of all my illegal carbon...might as well dump that extra hydrogen too.

[Dog Gone]

Yeah, find some unemployed Republicans to say something stupid and then proclaim it official GOP policy.

Tell me you're not that easily duped.

[catholicfreeper]

Its an interesting idea. And the author is right is that this idea has some basis in Conservative thought. My very conservative economic prof in college was a big supporter of something like this.

You can impose a tax or perhaps give "Carbon tax credits" if that is more appealing to the base

[samtheman]

This is what's known as a Pigovian tax

All taxes are pig taxes. How else can you hope to keep the public trough full?

[MadeInAmerica]

Yeah, find some unemployed Republicans to say something stupid and then proclaim it official GOP policy.

Tell me you're not that easily duped.
__________________________________________________________

It was mainly in jest, with some "hope it's fake" thought. But, when the Repubs spend like Dems, when they create huge Government like Dems, when they ignore our border security like Dems....it would not suprise me to see them offer up a carbon tax idea....like a Dem.

[Shermy]

"Someone tell me this is bullshit."

Probably not.

Bush sowed this junk by proclaiming the "hydrogen economy" and "addiction to oil." Global warming is "b s" but a noble goal is cutting pollution anyway and getting off oil.
But Bush is a Texas oil man and if anyone thinks he has the best interests of this nation and its people instead of his class, time to get real folks.

Instead of moving to hydro vehicles we will get these carbon credit scams and such which are international money laundering schemes.

Bush will go for them because it's a two-fer. Juices profits and makes him seem "environmental," like with his Amnerica-busting immigration plans to "remove" the source of the attraction of Mexican labor- the American lifestyle of people not as rich as he.

The Dems are too stupid to figure out the carbon scam. There was a moment when I thought Bush might be a leader in 2001 when he talked about the hydrogen economy...

....but I fear he might go to the carbon scams...

I hope not,

but he insists on traitoring us on immigration, so my hopes are not high.

I think we need to keep Bush in check for 2 years.

[Shermy]

"You can impose a tax or perhaps give "Carbon tax credits" if that is more appealing to the base"

Thank you, no. Appelaing to the base, did your professor tell you this?

[Dog Gone]

We'll see what Republican lawmakers end up learning as a lesson from this election.

They could be pulled two ways. Either try to be more like Democrats, or realize that why they really lost is because they forgot how to more like Republicans.

I'd be surprised if they conclude that they need to be bigger tax and spenders to get elected in 2008.

[USFRIENDINVICTORIA]

The climate change "crisis" has been blown out of all proportion -- it's a bogus problem.

However, if anything is going to be done to solve this "crisis"; there's a lot to be said for a carbon tax. If it were being introduced by the Democrats; it would be nothing more than a tax grab. If designed by the Republicans advantages could include:

* It would leverage the price system to effect the CO2 reductions -- as opposed to a myriad of inefficient government subsidies;
* Money raised through the carbon tax could be used to allow income tax decreases;
* Drivers of SUVs and other vehicles might not be harassed as much, as they would have paid the "social costs" of their energy consumption;
* The tax would not be as regressive as the article states -- richer people tend to use more energy, so they'd pay more;
* It would greatly diminish the political value of "climate change" to the Dems;
* Voters who emote, rather than think things through, might reconsider their support for Kyoto, etc. -- because they would be required to "put their money where their mouth is".

[catholicfreeper]

Well we did mention Carbon tax credits and no it didnt use the terms "appealing to the base". But like I said that does have a place in conservative thought as the article correctly points out.

Lets say we go the tax credit route. Why is that so unappealing. There is a incentive for industry to use cleaner technology. That benifits us all.

[FreedomNeocon]

Oh puhlease... David Frum is not a consecrative, and the closest republican description that applies to him are the "blue blood" northeastern republican who are pro-illegal immigration, yet somehow isolationist on foreign policy issues.

Why don't we start quoting "noted conservatives" like Tucker Carlson and Joe Scarborogh next...

[ggekko60506]

At the risk of getting flayed alive in this thread I don't Frum's suggestion is half bad.

The problem is that in any deal making scenario with the Treason Party the Republicans usually get rolled.

If the GOP could get REAL, comprehensive tax reform that stops punishing savings and investment I would consider a carbon tax a small price to pay for this. The consumption tax idea has the addtional benefitof neutering the obtrusiveness of the IRS.

The worst outcome for anything along these lines would a carbon tax coupled with a promise to consider the Fair Tax proposal later or on a limited "experimental" basis. the Treason party is not good at living up to future promises.

[advance_copy]

President Bush propose a carbon tax.

It will give him something good to veto.

[Shermy]

"Lets say we go the tax credit route. Why is that so unappealing. There is a incentive for industry to use cleaner technology. That benifits us all."

Tax credits might be good for cleaner energy, but beware the carbon credit trading, trade-n-cap schemes. These are unverifiable international money laundering schemes. Keywords - hydrogen, reducing pollution, ending reliance on foreign oil - good. Whenever you hear "carbon" only, presume it's a scam.

There was a moment in 2001 I thought Bush would make a grand move and make a big government project into hydrogen, none of this "market-based" junk when the "market" is against moving off oil.

He never did it.