[hosepipe]

[ The universe has an age because it had a beginning: Thus the universe is not eternal. For the reasons A-G cites, it must have had a first cause that is not itself "caused." ]

MUST be so to creature in a TIME box.. (that is a non eternal creature..)

But to an eternal "creature" something uncreated therefore "always was" is possible.. How long is always?.. Beginnings and endings is/are unique to this paradigm being time centered.. Its hard to get your mind around eternity.. Cause not only are there things that always will be there must be things that always were.. else what is eternity?..

Meaning; A Universe that always was should be possible.. and the Big Bang is a childish look at eternity..

[betty boop]

A Universe that always was should be possible.. and the Big Bang is a childish look at eternity..

How do you square this with Genesis and John, hosepipe? Don't forget, John speaks of the Logos "in the beginning," "Who was God, and was with God."

IOW, God is eternal. But that doesn't make His creation eternal.

[A. Pole]

Universe that always was should be possible.. and the Big Bang is a childish look at eternity..

One correction: the Eternity does not mean infinite time. It is something more. When God created the Heaven and Earth, He did it at the beginning of time itself. God created time.

Eternity is before the beginning of time, after the end of time and beyond time. This is what the original Greek term means "eis tous aionan ton aionon": "for the ages of ages" or "for the eons of eons".

God may create multiple universes with the their own times and spaces or with other way of arranging them, unimaginable to us, if it pleases Him.

[cornelis]

the Big Bang is a childish look at eternity

I'm not ready to follow you here, hosepipe. A big bang is just as possible as a Universe that always was. To ask what caused the bang is a good start at forming a hypothesis.

[.30Carbine]

I wish I had time to read this thread. I'm happy to see so many good FReepers on it! It is Richard Dawkins who says there is no such thing as evil, and he who came up with the idea of "memes" - that religious belief (but not the religious belief of atheism) is a 'virus' in the 'programing' of our brains. LOL. In this wicked flesh of mine I sometimes wish Jesus had not said we may not call anyone an idiot.

Related Link: Alister McGrath wants the world to know that Richard Dawkins is wrong: good science is not tantamount to atheism.