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If we had mounted a strong response, perhaps expelling the Chinese ambassador and threatening a tariff on all Chinese goods, we might have been seen to give a damn about our national interest in being a world power, instead of simply being a world power that has managed to maintain its position through good luck.

And then what? Whoops, that straw man again...

Don't get me wrong, I was as po'd as anyone about that incident. But, hindsight being 20/20, it's not just understandable, but admirable that 4 months into his administration, the President declined to be suckered by a half-baked affront.

Was it humiliating. Yes, I suppose-- the way dogsh!t on the sole of a shoe is humiliating-- but nothing a little soap and water won't remedy.

True we may have to confront the Chi-coms, say on Taiwan. But in the meantime, as Lincoln remarked "one war at a time."

By the way, if you can demonstrate to me that W has conceded an inch on his promise to stand by Taiwan, you win.

Tom

"And then what? Whoops, that straw man again..."

What straw man? THEN I'd have followed through if the Chinese didn't give us back our soldiers and our plane. How is that a straw man?

"Don't get me wrong, I was as po'd as anyone about that incident. But, hindsight being 20/20, it's not just understandable, but admirable that 4 months into his administration, the President declined to be suckered by a half-baked affront."

Nothing half-baked about it. We lost face on the world scene, and we 'suckered' ourselves into ignoring it because the other options might have seemed dangerous. We should have recognized that ALL the options were dangerous. I don't recall a whole lot of public outcry back then about how this would lead to trouble because the U.S. would seem weak, but it sure reinforced those who already believed us a paper tiger.

"Was it humiliating. Yes, I suppose-- the way dogsh!t on the sole of a shoe is humiliating-- but nothing a little soap and water won't remedy."

Excuse me, wtf? What soap and water will whitewash outright appeasement? "Peace in our time" are still dirty words to most people.

"True we may have to confront the Chi-coms, say on Taiwan. But in the meantime, as Lincoln remarked 'one war at a time.'"

Why are we hellbent on making sure it's on the Chinese timetable?

"By the way, if you can demonstrate to me that W has conceded an inch on his promise to stand by Taiwan, you win."

I wish. The problem is I don't win either way. If you concede, I'm right that W knuckled under to China. If you don't concede, I'm still right that W knuckled under to China, and I have you butting heads against reality, too. Whether W has 'conceded an inch' on his paper promise to defend Taiwan is irrelevant.