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You wrote, "Anyone who thinks that graphically describing with a view to titillate and MENTIONING are the same has an axe to grind."

I know the difference. Back to the point of the thread: Fiction writers generally establish a scene by largely describing the actions of the characters rather than using explanatory narrative; i.e., 'It was a nasty, terrible place where immoral acts were the norm...' because most fiction writers know, from formal instruction and by the examples established by great writers, that the reader is more easily immersed in a fictional world when shown, not told. From what I gather, and having read the excerpt that Webb has written describing a particularly vile act (although I haven't read the whole novel), the aim of that particular passage isn't to titillate. I gleaned no salacious intent from the passage. It is graphic enough to make me cringe inwardly, but that--I suppose--is Webb's intent.

You might want to re-think your Venus de Milo example. What if the missing hands of the Venus de Milo were making an obscene gesture?

Finally, the only axe I have to grind is the general anti-art tenor of many of the comments I've encountered on this and other threads. Walking around perpetually offended by what one sees and hears and reads is no way to live a life--leave that to the intolerant types over at DU and MoveOn. Don't like it? Don't read it, or watch it, or hear it. Close the book, turn the channel, change the dial. Sure, there's plenty of tawdry, rotten, badly made stuff out there, but there's good stuff, too.

What concerns me is how the bar has been lowered so much that kids and teenagers have easy access to porn. And adults. Pornography is not benign or harmless. I know more than three or four families offhand whose lives have been devastated by pornogprahy. And a lot of what is currently accepted as regular mainstream literature/entertainment/movies used to fall under the category of X rated.