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To: rustbucket
The President did not violate the Constitution, he has authority based on his responsibilty to stop rebellion. So you believe. Apparently you also believe the South's effort was a rebellion rather than a peaceful secession. I doubt that we'll agree on this, so let's save some bandwidth.

Yes, based on Article 1 sec.10

The fact is that they cannot withdraw and no where does it state in the Constitution that they can. Pieces of cake. Yes, they could and Tenth Amendment.

No it doesn't say a word about secession.

The 10th was put in to protect individual rights, since the framers of the Bill of Rights thought that listing restrictions on the Federal Gov't would mean what wasn't listed was allowed.

The Bill of Rights has nothing to do with 'States Rights'

What the Constitution does say is that they cannot form compacts or Confederations. They can if they were no longer states, which a huge part of the country truly believed but an even larger part apparently didn't believe. The argument as to whether they could secede and no longer be states was only settled at the point of a bayonet.

They could never ceased to be States and it was as States that they formed the Confederacy, in violation of Article 1, Sec. 10.

When they agreed to the Constitution they agreed that the Union would be a permanant one, and the individual states gave up their right to become sovereign nations.

After the war, key Radical Republicans such as Thaddeus Stephens believed that the seceded states were no longer states and that they should be treated as defeated territories, not states.

That was a contradiction on his part.

And why it did not fly.

Since when is the Union a Confederacy? George Washington kept referring to the new post-1787 union as a "confederated republic." In the 1820s and 1830s the Union started being called a Confederacy, but I haven't found it called that exact word before then.

The Constitution was viewed as forming a Union, by Madision.

If a State has wanted to remain outside the Union when it was ratified it could have done so.

Moreover, that was why the preamble read 'We the People' not the 'We the States'.

A State can no more withdraw from the Union then it can be ejected from the Union. There is a clause in Article V of the Constitution that deals with a state's representation in the Senate. It can't be taken from them without their consent (Radical Republicans, notwithstanding), so they can't be kicked out.

So, what makes you think they can leave?

If secession was legimate there would have been some mechanism put in place for it.

412 posted on 10/19/2006 5:13:14 AM PDT by fortheDeclaration (Am I therefore become your enemy because I tell you the truth? (Gal.4:16))
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To: fortheDeclaration
STATES do NOT have RIGHTS. only CITIZENS have RIGHTS.

STATES have POWERS, which in FREE societies are granted to the government by the consent of the governed.

btw, SECESSION is NOT one of the POWERS of the STATES, which were ceded to the central government by the STATES, thus it remains LAWFUL. the STATES, which CREATED the US government are perfectly FREE to change, modify and/or ABOLISH the union of states.

free dixie,sw

417 posted on 10/19/2006 7:31:06 AM PDT by stand watie ("Resistance to tyrants is OBEDIENCE to God." - T. Jefferson, 1804)
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