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-- what really infuriates those here that support the income tax.. They can't come up with a rational basis for their opposition to cleaning up the mess.. [instead they want to "improve" what we all agree is a mess]

Rob:
--- what we need to do, incremental improvements in what we already have.
This is already working and we should keep at it...

The number one problem we have is spending and entitlement growth. The FairTax adds to this problem greatly by making government much larger through the addition of the huge welfare prebate, which would overnight be the largest entitlement program.

Irrational comment, in that you are only guessing that a prebate would be worse than the welfare mess we have now.

And it is all new. Then, they have to make government larger in dollars just to stay even because they have to collect the FairTax money from us, so that they can pay it on everything they buy and all their salaries and benefits.

Of course its "all new". That's the point, to get rid of the mess we have now..

So, the FairTax doesn't fix anything.

Round you go, unable to give us a basis for your opposition to cleaning up the existing mess..

And I have given my exact things that I think need to be done to cleanup the present mess, which is not optimum.

The "present mess" is "not optimum" [the best].. -- Yet you want to make "incremental improvements in what we already have."
"This is already working and we should keep at it..."

Irrational comment, in that you are only guessing that a prebate would be worse

It is not irrational. The FairTax would create an entirely new government entitlement program-- the prebate. It would immediately be larger than Social Security or Medicare, and it would require the FedGov to increase the amount of revenue collected as compared to today by a very large amount.

Of course its "all new".

I was talking about the prebate, but yes the entire FairTax plan is new (and unproven). To me that is not a point in it's favor because there are very many NEW plans that could be tried. That doesn't make them good, or efficient, or workable.

Round you go, unable to give us a basis for your opposition to cleaning up the existing mess.

You are the one talking in circles. I have given my thoughts on what should be done to cleanup the present system. Just because I don't think potentially blowing up the greatest eceonmic engine the world has ever seen is a great idea does not make me an enemy of tax reform...

You'll have to come up with a better argument than that, and you could start by showing how the FairTax flaws I commented on above are incorrect.