[nathanbedford]

As one who lives in Germany, I am acutely sensitive to the sentiment expressed by JPM to the effect that we are in thrall to Israel's national interest rather than to our own. And this is a criticism which is widely current here in Europe. Indeed, it is this belief which permits the Europeans to stick their heads in the sand over the entire issue of terrorism, especially nuclear terrorism, because they believe that their disassociation from Israel immunizes Europe from such threats.

It seems to do little good to point out that terrorism already exists against Europe in Spain and in Great Britain and recently in Germany itself. It seems to be a disconnect in it arises out of America's connection with Israel. In fact, Europeans tend to believe that Americans, by a close association with Israel, are making life more dangerous for them.

I have often posted that it is necessary for American find its own way and be prepared to jettison Israel if necessary. After all, my children's fate is tied to the United States of America, not to Israel. I have often been tempted to post in response to mindless support of Israel or in support of mindless exortations to "nuke" Iran, or Mecca, or wherever, and ask of what country are these people citizens? But to do so is to court charges of anti-Semitism and start a whole pissing match which is tedious and diverts us from our real task which is to voice a conservative foreign policy for the USA. Besides, anyone who supports my avatar must be doubly careful in this regard.

But if I thought that America was being led down the path by Israel or Israel's agents in the American government, I would not hesitate to scream. However, there is a difference between parallel interests and substitute interests. I believe America's need to prevent Iran from getting the bomb is parallel to Israel's and we are not acting solely as a proxy for Israel. I do not think if we repudiated Israel today that it would solve our problem with the Iranians getting the bomb.

Finally, whatever the wisdom over the years of so intimately entwineing ourselves with Israel, we are today where we are, and we must go on from here. Whether it was simple human justice, or folly, to cast our lot with 4 million Israelis against 1.4 billion Muslims with all the oil in the world, one can argue until the next millennium. But those risks which we accepted were courted initially when we had a monopoly on the nuclear bomb and then, later, when we were dealing with a rational adversary in the Soviet Union.

The Specter which confronts us now, as you point out, is an irrational adversary with the bomb. In this situation, we put at risk our Western alliance, and we make it almost impossible to turn sane Muslims against the crazies which must be done if the war is ultimately to be won.

Just as we have ceded definition of victory in Iraq to our so called "allies" in Iraq, so we have put our faith to some degree in the hands of the Israelis and Palestinians. In Iraq, we cannot have victory without a democracy and we cannot have democracy without cooperation from the Iraqis. In the broader mid East, we will find it very difficult to work with sane and somewhat secular Muslims against fundamentalists unless the Israelis and the Palestinians can come to a modus vivendi. So our fate in both realms is out of our hands, we cannot impose democracy on Iraq, and we cannot impose peace on Palestine.

[cooldog]

I find your attitude toward support for Israel incredibly short-sighted, at best.

The Arab/muslim hatred for Israel has nothing of sanity in it. Were Israel gone, they'd simply find a new focus for their insane hatred.

Guess what?

Europe's next, because they're closest.

You'd better hope Israel survives ....

[T.L.Sink]

I agree with much of what you say with this caveat: Israel is an ally, a democracy, and an extension of Judaeo-Christian Western civilization.

I think to some extent we are in a "clash of civilizations" and to this extent our struggle is also the same as Israel's. They're the "little Satan" and we're the "Great Satan" - but we face a common enemy that's determined to destroy us both. I don't see this alliance as simply a temporary matter of happenstance -- but one that is crucial and fundamental to the war against jihadists.

By the way, criticizing Israel doesn't mean one is anti-Semitic although some critics are. Pat Buchanan, where are you?

[GladesGuru]

You wrote, "Whether it was simple human justice, or folly, to cast our lot with 4 million Israelis against 1.4 billion Muslims with all the oil in the world, one can argue until the next millennium. But those risks which we accepted were courted initially when we had a monopoly on the nuclear bomb and then, later, when we were dealing with a rational adversary in the Soviet Union.

The Specter which confronts us now, as you point out, is an irrational adversary with the bomb."

I suggest that we consider that whatever we did or did not do would have made no difference to the Muslim world. Israel is not the issue. Islam and its' religious command to impose Sharia "law" on the dhimmi populations is the problem.

Islam must be either reformed or extirpated.