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Evolution Is Practically Useless, Admits Darwinist
Creation Evolution Headlines ^ | 08/30/06 | Creation Evolution Headlines

Posted on 09/13/2006 3:52:47 PM PDT by DannyTN

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To: muawiyah
Why would anyone believe that no bird today grows teeth?

Because today it requires tricks and mutations, whereas all archaeopteryx had them as a matter of course. Even creationists manage to learn that chickens have beaks and not teeth.

Moreover, the fact that it is at all possible to "trick" a chicken into growing teeth is another classic evidence of evolution. Chickens have teeth in their ancestry: it's written in their genes as well as in their fossil history. Stephen Jay Gould even titled one of his books Hen's Teeth and Horse's Toes.

381 posted on 09/14/2006 4:53:32 AM PDT by Physicist
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To: ReignOfError
Evolution is irrelevant to physics and cosmology. They're separate subjects. You might as well argue that music theory is anathema to architecture.

Evolution is all about physics.

382 posted on 09/14/2006 5:06:02 AM PDT by DungeonMaster (More and more churches are nada scriptura.)
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To: DungeonMaster
Evolution is all about physics.

If that's the case, I give it my full endorsement.

383 posted on 09/14/2006 5:23:04 AM PDT by Physicist
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To: Bob Eimiller

BTTT


384 posted on 09/14/2006 5:24:20 AM PDT by G Larry (Only strict constructionists on the Supreme Court!)
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To: Physicist

It doesn't require "mutations" at all. The birds all have the genes to grow teeth. You remove the DNA methylation that prevents them from being expressed and you'll get a bird with a mouthful of teeth.


385 posted on 09/14/2006 5:36:06 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah
Oh, and that just happened all the time back then. Right?
386 posted on 09/14/2006 5:37:12 AM PDT by Physicist
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To: Physicist
If we found an archaeopteryx skull WITHOUT TEETH we'd call it something else ~ maybe even a chicken ~

Still, could be the same critter and we'll never know unless we can compare a full genome of one with the other.

387 posted on 09/14/2006 5:39:14 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Physicist
That birds had teeth? All birds expressed teeth at one time.

It simply does not require a change in genes to stop teeth from growing. DNA methylation, which does not itself change the genome ~ not even to transpose a basepair ~ can do the trick all by itself.

388 posted on 09/14/2006 5:41:43 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: DannyTN
I question what it has to do with evolution.

You asked about macroevolution and I gave you a dozen or more examples in which chromosome duplications have produced macro changes.

Selective breeding takes advantage of mutations as well as alleles already existing in the gene pool. There is no physical or biological difference between natural and artificial selection.

Evolution is a change in the frequency of alleles due to differential reproductive success. It matters not whether the success is determined with or without human intervention.

Evolution includes changes due to mutations, and polyploidy is a mutation.

You asked for examples where evolution has produced something useful, and I pointed out that most of what we eat -- all of our domesticated plants and animals are the result of applied evolution.

389 posted on 09/14/2006 5:54:18 AM PDT by js1138 (Well I say there are some things we don't want to know! Important things!")
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To: freedumb2003

>>(Hint: A "theory" is not a grown-up "hypothesis.")<<

Yes, I notice it is quite common for discussions to end up being reduced to the definitions of words - and with things like dictionary.com so easily available.

That said, arguing definitions of words like "theory" are usualy diversions used by both sides in this thing.


390 posted on 09/14/2006 5:56:56 AM PDT by RobRoy (Islam is more dangerous to the world now that Naziism was in 1937.)
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To: RegulatorCountry
You've certainly changed your tune from those interminable Hitler-Darwin threads, where you would scarcely admit that there was even such a thing as applied science at all.

Really.

I believe what I said was that anyone applying evolution to humans would not kill the brightest, most talented and productive individuals, and encourage the reproduction of the dregs. Go back to my posts and see if that's not what I said.

391 posted on 09/14/2006 5:58:51 AM PDT by js1138 (Well I say there are some things we don't want to know! Important things!")
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To: DannyTN

Evolution is very useful as a religion.


392 posted on 09/14/2006 6:00:43 AM PDT by DungeonMaster (More and more churches are nada scriptura.)
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To: Suzy Quzy
...you obviously have no evidence or you would be PROUD to show it to the world. Just as I thought.

Get a life. Applied evolution has produced all of our food crops and all of our domestic animals -- both our pets and the ones we eat. You would starve to death if evolution didn't exist.

393 posted on 09/14/2006 6:01:29 AM PDT by js1138 (Well I say there are some things we don't want to know! Important things!")
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To: js1138
Get a life. Applied evolution has produced all of our food crops and all of our domestic animals -- both our pets and the ones we eat. You would starve to death if evolution didn't exist.

LOL, reminds me of the unions saying they invented the weekend.

394 posted on 09/14/2006 6:03:44 AM PDT by DungeonMaster (More and more churches are nada scriptura.)
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To: muawiyah
All birds expressed teeth at one time.

It simply does not require a change in genes to stop teeth from growing. DNA methylation, which does not itself change the genome ~ not even to transpose a basepair ~ can do the trick all by itself.

That's fine, but why and how did the methylation change in actual birds? Are you saying it was not due to some other change in the DNA? I'm not talking about what goes on in the lab, but what went on in the wild.

But in any case, all this is beside the point. Darwinism (and indeed evolution) isn't tied to genetics, obviously: Darwin knew nothing of genetics. All that is required is an inherited change. As you say, all birds expressed teeth at one time. As you know, no birds express teeth today (except under extremely special conditions). That's an inherited change (genetic or not). Evolution by definition.

395 posted on 09/14/2006 6:06:01 AM PDT by Physicist
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To: RadioAstronomer
>>There is far more evidence supporting the theory of evolution (and indeed it is a scientific theory) than gravitational theory.<<

HA, ha. Baloney. 911 was evidence supporting the theory of gravity. Our orbit of the sun is evidence that supports the theory of gravity. When I pour milk on my cereal there is yet more evidence supporting the theory of gravity.

And yet with that, we really cannot prove whether or not it pulls or pushes. Both sides can be argued.

Some evolution has been observed, like the evolution of the Corvette, while others have not, like speciation. And evolution is a "catch all" phrase anyway. Gravity is one of the four forces. Simple. Concise. Evolution is...what? That one type of fruit fly outnumbers another until the conditions favor the latter, at which point they reverse population percentages? Yeah, some call that evolution and I believe that sort of evolution happens all the time. It is observable.

But when someone says that dogs came from the primordial soup, I can explain the logical fallacies necessary to come to that belief. I can show them that all of the evidence for such a belief is based in faith, mostly in FUTURE discoveries. If they are a True Believer, there is nothing to do but smile and nod.
396 posted on 09/14/2006 6:07:54 AM PDT by RobRoy (Islam is more dangerous to the world now that Naziism was in 1937.)
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To: Physicist
Since different species of birds express teeth every now and then it's pretty obvious that the tooth gene is still present (even if we haven't developed a full report on the genome), but it's been suppressed in some manner.

One process for suppressing a gene is called "DNA methylation". There may well be others, e.g. a demiurge from the quantum processor in each cell ~ something like that ~ we just don't know yet.

No change in the genome is required for birds to NOT express teeth, nor is a change in the genome required for birds to express teeth.

Mammals somehow suppress the growth of extra tooth sets ~ reptiles have no such problem. Neither do birds. There's work afoot to determine how we can remove the suppression ~ and thereby eliminate dentistry.

397 posted on 09/14/2006 6:11:27 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: MineralMan

>>OK. I've had one every year it has been available. I guess I don't see the relevance of either statement.<<

Me neither. I was responding to this comment:

"Well I suppose then that all the creationsits can skip their annual influenza vaccinations and free up the limited supply to the evos."

My point was that I DO already skip it. I wouldn't even know where to get one, especially since I don't have TV, I don't listen to radio and I don't read newspapers. All my news is Pulled.

I suppose I could google it if I had to...


398 posted on 09/14/2006 6:11:40 AM PDT by RobRoy (Islam is more dangerous to the world now that Naziism was in 1937.)
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To: muawiyah

True enough. Whig --> Republican was not a direct transformation, but rather a general defection from the failing Whig party to the new Republican one, e.g. Lincoln.


399 posted on 09/14/2006 6:13:27 AM PDT by Stultis
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To: DungeonMaster; js1138
"Applied Evolution" sounds remarkably like "Intelligent Design".

Hmmmmmm ~ the "other problem" ~ where one side starts claiming the territory thought to have been carved out by the other.

400 posted on 09/14/2006 6:16:29 AM PDT by muawiyah
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