Replies

...would you allow that if your Jewish neighbor wanted to test his sperm, that it is his business and not yours? >>>

you are trying to make morality relative to your own personal beliefs. You must have forgotten but you asked me my opinion and I gave it. If you don't fear the Lord and you think like the liberals that the 10 Commandments and the Constitution are living documents, then so be it. The morality was etched in stone by God. It doesn't change because we modernized.

If you want the opinion from a Jewish person then I suggest you go and ask one, there are many on the FR, and if you do, you make get different answers since there are many branches of Judaism including but not limited to: reformed, conservative and orthodox.

If you think that masturbating in a cup, centrifuging the sperm then mixing it in a petri dish with eggs, creating a bunch of embryos/babies, testing them for defects, choose the healthy ONE and discarding the 1/2 dozen or so siblings/babies is moral and OK, then so be it... that's your morality, I can't change the way you think.

From the 3rd paragraph:

...That was the reason they selected her, from among the "other embryos" they had conceived through "elective" in vitro fertilization, to implant in her mother’s uterus....

I'm sure glad I wasn't an elective and was born. And what about the others? Frozen for life? Discarded, thrown away like trash? Yep, that sure sounds moral.... as I said, if that's your morality, so be it.

I think you may be confusing morality with law. There are many things that are immoral but are legal and vice versa.

My question to you was if you consider that people who don't share your views of morality (even though you exclusively are correct on what is and is not moral because of your doctrine of moral absolutes and thus your neighbors views are wrong), might be granted the freedom to exercise their religious views, even though this differ from yours?

Would you allow your neighbor that freedom, as he might also allow it to you? Or because of your views, would you use the law to prohibit him from his free exercise of his own religion?

jas3

...would you allow that if your Jewish neighbor wanted to test his sperm, that it is his business and not yours?

you are trying to make morality relative to your own personal beliefs. You must have forgotten but you asked me my opinion and I gave it. If you don't fear the Lord and you think like the liberals that the 10 Commandments and the Constitution are living documents, then so be it. The morality was etched in stone by God. It doesn't change because we modernized.

If you want the opinion from a Jewish person then I suggest you go and ask one, there are many on the FR, and if you do, you make get different answers since there are many branches of Judaism including but not limited to: reformed, conservative and orthodox.

If you think that masturbating in a cup, centrifuging the sperm then mixing it in a petri dish with eggs, creating a bunch of embryos/babies, testing them for defects, choose the healthy ONE and discarding the 1/2 dozen or so siblings/babies is moral and OK, then so be it... that's your morality, I can't change the way you think.

From the 3rd paragraph:

...That was the reason they selected her, from among the "other embryos" they had conceived through "elective" in vitro fertilization, to implant in her mother’s uterus....

I'm sure glad I wasn't an elective and was born. And what about the others? Frozen for life? Discarded, thrown away like trash? Yep, that sure sounds moral.... as I said, if that's your morality, so be it.

There are so many points to repond to here, but I will try to cover them all.

I was not suggesting what my personal beliefs were to you. I was suggesting that your neighbors do not all share your beliefs. The Almish may consider much of your lifestyle to be immoral. And yet they allow you to live your life without attempting to pass laws to restrict the clothing that you wear.

Likewise you may consider that if a neighbor wants to test his sperm that it is morally wrong, but legally you should not prohibit him from doing so. You probably would not feel that way if he wanted to eat his children for breakfast.

So the question was: Would you consider that your neighbor would or SHOULD have the right to test his own sperm, or would you enforce your moral code on him via law (as he might also be tempted to then enforce his moral code on you). This question gets at the freedom of religious expression.

You will be very pleased to hear that I don't think the 10 Commandments or the Constitution are living documents. I don't think any documents are living. They mean what they say and no more or less. If one wants to change the Constitution, one needs to amend it.

While there are many branches of Judaism, there are many more branches of Christianity. And for each one, there are people who claim that there version is the morally ABSOLUTE one to the exclusion of all others. Yet we somehow all manage to coexists because of the commonalities between them and the tolerance for views which do not comport with our own.

If you think that masturbating in a cup, centrifuging the sperm then mixing it in a petri dish with eggs, creating a bunch of embryos/babies, testing them for defects, choose the healthy ONE and discarding the 1/2 dozen or so siblings/babies is moral and OK, then so be it... that's your morality, I can't change the way you think.

Of course this is not what I said, what I think, or my morality. I question your good faith in this discussion when you intentionally and recklessly try to suggest such silliness.

jas3

You really put it in perspective.