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To: an amused spectator
"Deny the Creator, and deny your Natural Rights."

Why?

Because you say so?

You're not my Creator so your opinion as to when or why the Creator nullifies anyone's unalienable rights is as big a mystery to you as it is to me.

Furthermore, it's not whether or not I believe that I was granted unalienable rights from God that makes those rights stand, it's the fact that YOU believe that those rights were granted to me by the Creator that stops you from violating them.

"How far we have fallen from the learning of our forefathers..."

"The settled opinion here is, that religion is essentially distinct from civil Government, and exempt from its cognizance; that a connection between them is injurious to both; that there are causes in the human breast which ensure the perpetuity of religion without the aid of the law; that rival sects, with equal rights, exercise mutual censorships in favor of good morals; that if new sects arise with absurd opinions or over-heated imaginations, the proper remedies lie in time, forbearance, and example; that a legal establishment of religion without a toleration could not be thought of, and with a toleration, is no security for and animosity; and, finally, that these opinions are supported by experience, which has shewn that every relaxation of the alliance between law and religion, from the partial example of Holland to the consummation in Pennsylvania, Delaware, New Jersey, &c., has been found as safe in practice as it is sound in theory. Prior to the Revolution, the Episcopal Church was established by law in this State. On the Declaration of Independence it was left, with all other sects, to a self-support. And no doubt exists that there is much more of religion among us now than there ever was before the change, and particularly in the sect which enjoyed the legal patronage. This proves rather more than that the law is not necessary to the support of religion (James Madison Letter to Edward Everett, Montpellier, March 18, 1823).

"History I believe furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance, of which their political as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purpose. (Thomas Jefferson, in a letter to Baron von Humboldt, 1813; from George Seldes, ed., The Great Quotations, Secaucus, New Jersey: Citadel Press, 1983, p. 370)"

And as far as your statement about forfeiting unalienable rights...here's George Washington:

" In the Enlightened Age and in this Land of equal Liberty it is our boast, that a man's religious tenets will not forfeit the protection of the Laws, nor deprive him of the right of attaining and holding the highest Offices that are known in the United States. (George Washington, letter to the members of the New Church in Baltimore, January 27, 1793. Quoted in Richard B. Morris, Seven Who Shaped Our Destiny: The Founding Fathers as Revolutionaries, Harper & Row, 1973, p. 269.)

Methinks it's you that's lost sight of the Constitution.

When it comes to determining what the laws of the United States mean, the only document that matters is the Consti­tution. The Constitution, a completely secular document, contains no references to God (other than in the date), Jesus or Christianity. It says absolutely nothing about the United States being officially Christian.

60 posted on 08/27/2006 12:45:47 PM PDT by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
Methinks it's you that's lost sight of the Constitution.

I've debated the meaning of the Founding documents for many years here on FR. I can see by your post that I won't learn anything new about those documents from you - though I might learn a little Sophistry.

This strawman "It says absolutely nothing about the United States being officially Christian" proves my point succinctly. Any newbie Constitutionalist knows that.

You're dismissed. Don't bother me with your nonsense any longer.

62 posted on 08/27/2006 12:56:54 PM PDT by an amused spectator (Hezbollah: Habitat for Humanity with an attitude)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
PS - obviously metaphysics is NOT your strong suit:

"You're not my Creator so your opinion as to when or why the Creator nullifies anyone's unalienable rights is as big a mystery to you as it is to me."

These things WOULD be a mystery, wouldn't they? **snicker**

;-)

64 posted on 08/27/2006 1:00:20 PM PDT by an amused spectator (Hezbollah: Habitat for Humanity with an attitude)
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