Plane Crashes in Lexington

WTVQ 36 Lexington ^ | August 27, 2006 | Jon Sasser

[Bluegrass Federalist]

This is contrary to what I have been told, by someone who has been on the plane. If he is lying to me, I don't want to know differently.

[CindyDawg]

I don't understand why there is a problem with people accepting that the pilot makes the final decision.

[cheme]

Runway 8/26
Dimensions: 3500 x 75 ft. / 1067 x 23 m
Surface: asphalt/concrete, in poor condition
CONC IS SEVERELY CRACKED.
Weight bearing capacity: Single wheel: 12500 lbs

Date: August 27, 2006 Time: 06:07
Location: Lexington, Kentucky
Operator: Comair/Delta Connection Flight: 5191
AC Type: Canadair CL-600-2B19 (CJR200)
Reg: N431CA cn: 7472

Serial Number 7472 Type Registration Corporation
Manufacturer Name BOMBARDIER INC Certificate Issue Date 01/30/2001
Model CL-600-2B19 Status Valid
Type Aircraft Fixed Wing Multi-Engine Type Engine Turbo-Fan
Pending Number Change None Dealer No
Date Change Authorized None Mode S Code 51223410
MFR Year 2001 Fractional Owner NO

Model / Series: CL-600-2B19 or CL-601R
Specification basis: RAD-601R-202 Rev. B, February 01, 2000
GECAS purchase agreement Change Requests (CR)
___________________________________________________________________
GECAS Proprietary 1 01 November 2001
General Information
Engine installation: 2 x CF34-3B1
Take off thrust - normal 8,729 lbs
- max 9,220 lbs
Maximum Ramp Weight: 24,109 kgs / 53,150 lbs
Maximum Take-off Weight (MTOW): 23,995 kgs / 52,900 lbs (CR 00-014)
Maximum Landing Weight (MLW): 21,319 kgs / 47,000 lbs
Maximum Zero Fuel Weight (MZFW): 19,958 kgs / 44,000 lbs

[Txsleuth]

Dang...that is gonna be the hardest part for the families, I bet...no knowing WHY that pilot took the wrong runway.

Thanks, EG.

[2111USMC]

Post 638 of this thread had a partial list of names.

Below is a partial list of victims confirmed by various sources by LEX 18 of the crash of Comair flight 5191 Sunday morning, with ages and hometowns listed when possible:

Capt. Jeffrey Adam Clay, Burlington, KY (pilot)
Kelly J. Heyer, 27, Cincinnati (flight attendant)
Dan Mallory, Lexington
Leslie and Kaye Morris, Lexington
John Hooker, 27, and Scarlet Parsley Hooker, 23, London
Mike Finley, 52, London
Holly Gilbert, London
Bobby Meaux, Harrodsburg
Cecile Moscoux
Erik Harris
Bryan Byrd, Richmond
Judy Rains, Richmond
Pat Smith, Lexington
Larry Turner, Lexington
C.W. Fortney
Bart Frederick, Danville
Carole Bizzack, Richmond
George Brunacini, Lexington
Charles Lykins, Naples, FL
Jeff Williams, 49, Lexington

Source: http://www.wlextv.com/Global/story.asp?S=5331989&nav=menu203_1_16



638 posted on 08/27/2006 5:24:00 PM CDT by jdm (I gotta give the Helen Thomas obsession a rest.)
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[El Gato]

ATC tapes. CVR and CDR are not read locally. They were at NTSB HQ in DC sometime this PM, but ATC tapes can be reviewed on site.

Actually the NTSB spokeswoman, speaking from DC I think, revealed information from the data recorder as well as the audio information. She didn't make it clear if the audio was ATC tapes or CVR.

[Palladin]

May they all rest in peace, and may their loved ones be comforted.

[Palladin]

I am very sorry that you lost so many close friends. I am praying that all the loved ones of all these people will find strength and consolation.

[Not A Snowbird]

Out of 500 hundred posts to this thread no one here even suggested a possible Muslim connection.

No need to suggest it. I doubt Muslim extremists were rseponsible for the pilot trying to take off on the wrong runway.

[Moonman62]

When an accident like this occurs it's usually a combination of otherwise harmless events. I think they'll have a pretty good guess by the time the investigation is finished.

[cheme]

Here is what I know. The airport really only has only two runways (4/22 the same runway depending on the end you are departing to or landing to) for commercial aircraft. The pilot in command is solely responsible for taking off the proper runway. He has GPS, maps, nav instruments, radios, a copilot, and had to do a flight plan prior departure (Look at the departing and destination airports, weather and so on). In addition, the runways have big 26 and 22 painted on them snd the pilot in command still ended up on the wrong runway.

[diogenes ghost]

"Every seat occupied is no less safe than 1/2 full." That is such a ridiculous statement, I simply wouldn't know where to start correcting it. Just damn, dude, think it over a while before you make a statement like that.

[Mr Cobol]

They say these disasters come in three's.

A few days ago a crash in the Ukrane that killed 170.

Today was 49.

Next one?

Damn, hope I'm wrong.

[diogenes ghost]

"thirty-five romeo" and "thirty-five lima" aren't similar. No, they aren't; but that is NOT how they are referred to. Correct runway phraseology is "Runway three five right" and "Runway three five left"

[USNBandit]

Only the Aircraft Commander is allowed to log Pilot in Command Time. So when a P-3 guy gets to his first squadron he is going to be spending quite a while getting his Aircraft Commander qualification. Until then he isn't getting any PIC time.

When you are at the controls you are logging First Pilot time, but that is different. For instance if you are a copilot at a commuter and it is your leg you are logging first pilot time when at the controls, but you log no Pilot in Command Time.

In order for these commuter guys to make themselve competitive for the majors they have to work their way into the left seat and fly for a couple years to build the PIC time they need.

[diogenes ghost]

Capt is ALWAYS pilot in command. If there ir reference to who was at the controls at a certain time, he is referred to as "pilot flying", and other is "pilot not flying".

[RockinRight]

I think the issue was the length of the runway. The main runway is 7000 feet. The secondary runway this plane was on was 3500, far too short for a CRJ to take-off, it needs about 5800 feet. The shorter runway is only suitable for small private aircraft. Although a CRJ is small by commercial jet standards, it is still much too large to take off on a 3500 foot runway safely.

[RebelTex]

Here's what we think we know so far, according to latest reports:

1. Pilot used Runway 26 which was the wrong runway because it was too short.
2. ATC had cleared him for Runway 22, the long runway.
3. FAA mandated that LEX block off the section of Runway 22 closest to highway/street and extend that runway at the opposite end.  (I've illustrated this by modifying an aerial pic from Google - closed off section is shown in pink and extended section is shown in yellow.)
4. This construction was performed in the last week, so anyone that had not flown in or out during this week would not have a good mental reference or memory of the changes.
5. It was still dark at the time of takeoff - sun had not come up (and some mention of rain).
6. Status of runway lights on either runway is still in dispute (as far as I know).
7. The angle of the turn onto Runway 26 is approximately the same angle as the turn onto Runway 22 from the blocked off portion of taxi-way A.

One possible scenario is that, in the dark, the pilot when actually reaching Runway 26 and seeing that he could no longer continue straight ahead, he may have thought he had reached Runway 22 because he may have remembered passing taxi-way A5 and now assumed A5 was Runway 26, made the same tight turn as he usually made to get on Runway 22 - but actually turning onto Runway 26.   Or he might have remembered (from previous flights from LEX) that Runway 22 (the long one) was at the END of taxi-way A. However, it's now at the end of taxi-way A4.

Check out the modified photo and you might be able to see how this might have happened in the dark.

           

Pilot error will most probably be the result of the investigation, but there were, IMO, contributing factors.

1. Failure of Captain and First Officer to verify correct runway.
2. Controller not warning pilot that he was on wrong runway.
3. Possible lack of runway lights.
4. Possible lack of adequate messaging about runway configuration changes.
5. FAA mandate to reconfigure the runway.

Thanks to all the knowledgeable FReepers that have contributed the above info in various posts.  I just wanted to kind of pull it all together.  If there is a better theory that make more sense, I haven't seen it, yet. 

[SideoutFred]

Nice job.

I'm confused why the FAA would basically take the area at the end (your pink area) and put that off limits. Wouldn't that be advisable for the airport to use as much runway as possible...it seems by taking away the pink area the FAA has actually shortened the runway.

[RebelTex]

"I'm confused why the FAA would basically take the area at the end (your pink area) and put that off limits."

From various articles and comments of other posters, I think the reason is that the FAA wanted to move the end of the runway farther away from the roadway (shown to the right in the picture).  Apparently, that road now has a lot more traffic on it then when the airport was first built and the FAA now considers it a safety issue.   At least the FAA also required LEX to extend the other end of the runway (shown in yellow in the pic) so that the runway would still be as long as it was.