Posted on 08/26/2006 10:22:51 PM PDT by jdm
A new policy by Internet trading behemoth eBay that bans homeschool teachers' texts from its auctions is prompting a tirade of complaints from the company's faithful customers.
"Really the homeschooling community is a huge participant in eBay when you get to thinking about it," said one customer who was identified as "Angelwings" on an eBay blog. "We buy textbooks naturally but we also purchase items like microscopes, slides, globes, maps, manipulatives, educational games, reading books, supplies for our classrooms … stickers, idea books, folders, sheet protectors, school supplies, software, educational movies, models, post cards … the list is enormous."
The policy, which is inclusive of all teachers' texts, was made known recently as those who were auctioning various books watched as their postings were deleted.
Another homeschooler on the blog said she questioned eBay when her listings were cancelled.
"They told me that it fell under their heading of 'illegal, dangerous, offensive, or potentially infringing,'" she said. "What are they thinking? I have a mess of curriculum here that I can't sell, and needing money from it to buy curriculum for the new school year."
The response from the company was posted for others to see.
"As you may know, eBay does not permit items that are illegal, dangerous, offensive, or potentially infringing. Additionally, eBay has just recently made the decision to prohibit the sale of Teacher's Editions of textbooks and solutions manuals that are intended solely for use by teachers. Since eBay strives to be a level-playing field, all Teacher's Edition textbooks, manuals and guides will be covered under this policy. Unfortunately, home schooling Teacher's Editions are not exempt from this policy and this policy will apply to all grade levels."
The company continued that those products often contain "special answer keys, exams, teaching tips, and guides."
And, it noted, "multiple organizations and publishers have voiced their concern to us over such books that may only be purchased through educational institutions by teachers."
"Where do they get off telling me that I don't have the right to buy, sell, or own a teacher's manual??? How could I teach my children without it???" another blogger asked.
Still another reported having a few 2006 teachers' edition textbooks for college classes pulled from the site.
"Now I'm stuck with them," the writer said.
"We are a major buying and selling force on eBay & once I got to thinking of all the things we purchase just for ourselves and our school it's amazing," said Angelwings. "I'm in the same boat as many of you….I've got three grade levels of books here I need to sell in order to purchase our supplies for next year."
WorldNetDaily did not get an immediate response from eBay about the situation. The website accepts e-mail questions but responds in 24-48 hours.
Its website explanation is straightforward.
"Teacher's editions of textbooks and solutions manuals that are intended solely for use by teachers are not permitted by eBay."
And it notifies users that "listing cancellation, forfeit of eBay fees on cancelled listings, limits on account privileges, account suspension" are all possible results.
"As a homeschooler I believe this directly discriminates against me since I have used Ebay numerous times to both buy and sell homeschool curricula. As a budget conscious homeschooling mother I like to buy used materials as often as possible. This means buying the teacher's materials used on Ebay and purchasing new workbooks directly from the publisher or distributor," Dana wrote.
eBay did offer a recourse for further concerns:
"We appreciate the fact that you may disagree with eBay's decision to establish this policy. If you would like to see these policies change, or have suggestions on how to make the site better, you may want to submit your feelings by completing the form at the following URL."
eBay's overview of prohibited items includes animals, artifacts, autographed items, academic software, bootleg recordings, credit cards, drugs and paraphernalia, government IDs, lockpicking devices, human remains, police-related items, used clothing and used cosmetics, among others.
One blogger noted that public school interests have been opposing homeschooling more and more, as homeschooling as grown substantially in recent years. Recent estimates have put homeschool attendance in the U.S. at more than 2.5 million. And the same comment noted book publishers also dislike having the products re-sold.
A public school teacher defended the policy, saying she cannot get a teacher's edition from a publisher unless she provides proof of her teaching employment. "It is quite costly for publishers to research and develop curricula and it is copyrighted."
But there also are other auctions that do allow the sale of homeschool texts. One location, which does require purchasers to be 18, is Schoolbookauction.com. Another one is Homeschoolbid.com and observers said there are many more available through an Internet search.
The Home School Legal Defense Association said it was aware of the situation.
"We have received many complaints about the eBay policy and we are actively working on a solution," Media Relations Director Ian Slatter told WND. That group is the largest organization of homeschoolers in the United States, with more than 80,000 member families.
LATELY??????? eBay pissed me off more than 4 years ago. I had a pristine record and one jerk filed a complaint and eBay shut down the auction I was in the middle of - when they shut me down I had over 3grand in bids with between 1 and 72 hours to go on various items.
It took me more than 6 months and my attorney for them to quit attempting to steal money from my bank account.
You hit on the right idea - set up an alternative swap site. The internet is a big place and e-bay doesn't have to cater to everyone. But e-bay ain't going anywhere soon. It's still a big place with some great deals.
Somehow I suspect the original publi$her would not scrutinize very hard if orders were placed with it. Got a credit card? Shipping to credit card address? You're in like Flint.
Just start a site where you can trade, buy and sell these materials. Lots of people do it. Former ebay traders have found the waters just as warm for specialty items on seperate sites. I talke to a guy that sells marbles. That is what they did.
That is a FABULOUS idea........and I'm not a homeschooler...but this seriously ticks me off.
Our elite are only working against their competition: other people's kids, who are in the process of escaping from the plantation. If more of you could only see much of what is in public school curricula,... Try snooping by working part time for a public school, pay attention, and you'll see.
I agree. Any business has a right to refuse to do something. All of this hue and cry is pure BS from folks who SHOULD NOT be homeschooling their kids.
Who gave e-bay control of property rights in this country anyhow?
E-bay is not the only source of these. Buy them direct from the publisher or another retail outlet that supplies teachers.
Not an uncommon story. Anyone that gives ebay (and PayPal) there bank account information is asking for these kinds of problems.
I guy I know that sold on ebay but seasonal items. At he end of the season his listing went quiet. Three months later he opened his bank statement and found it overdrawn by heaps with debits to PayPal.
People who had bought from him months earlier put in charge backs once they saw he had gone inactive. He did not have the money in his PayPal account any longer so they took it right out of his bank account.
That started a very long process to get his money back, showing proof of delivery and still having to call and call and call to check up on their "resolution process."
Ebay is a good place to sell but under no circumstances should you use their PayPal service or authorize them to take money from your bank.
Way I look at it, property rights in this case are clearly delimited. Folks have absolute rights to sell or swap their texts - they paid for the licence rights somewhere along the chain of purchases. E-bay has absolute rights as to what goes on their servers. I wouldn't have it any other way (see my tagline).
As for who should or should not be homeschooling, do I detect a bit of sarcasm in that sentence?
ebay went off the tracks completely about 3 years ago.
That's interesting. Is that some sort of scam carried out by e-bay purchasers - wait until the seller goes inactive and then allege non-delivery?
Seems like it would be hit and miss at best.
I totally agree with you in regard to using PayPal or giving them access to your bank account.........I am in TOTAL DISagreement with you in regard to eBay being a good place to sell. They are thieves.....plain and simple.
I learned my lesson dealing with them and advise anyone to not deal with them - if they do and get screwed (which they eventually will) I have no sympathy.
LOL
I just wish the same clear logic you are espousing regarding property rights still extended to gun makers and owners.
Try to ship a pistol to your out of state buddy and see what happens.
If ebay doesn't want to sell it (whatever it is), that's fine with me and it's their right to set the conditions because it is their show. I refuse to repair tractors at my shop, yet for some reason the farmers around here seem to find someone else to get it done. I don't hear this homeschooling crowd complaining too often when a physician refuses to do abortions or a pharmacists refuses to dispense certain pills.
Somehow, many home schoolers have been lulled into some militant position that abusurdly asserts because they own some property, ebay should be forced to sell it for them.
Civics and Logic are not strong subjects in most home schoolers' curriculae.
I have been selling on eBay since 2001 and I have over 1100 feedbacks and no trouble at all. I haven't had any problems with paypal either.
I hear different horror stories now and then but I honestly haven't had any trouble. I don't sell much these days because of the increased fees. My ebay fees and paypal fees combined amounted to 20% of my gross last year. Way too much, if you ask me. But, as I said, I haven't had any problems in the 5 years I have been selling.
"Civics and Logic are not strong subjects in most home schoolers' curriculae."
And, you know this because.....?
Trade the books on Amazon. Ebay is too cruddy anyway.
I know this because of the way the people are acting in the article and on this thread, for two examples.
Far be it from me to say home schooling isn't better than public school, but my point is there is no logical argument for jumping on ebay about this issue.
Oh, I've tried. It's a pain in the ass.
I don't hear this homeschooling crowd complaining too often when a physician refuses to do abortions or a pharmacists refuses to dispense certain pills.
Very true. Consistency is often lacking among certain activists.
I do know some homeschoolers who understand and appreciate market economics. I see now you were referring specifically to certain ones. :-)
***I don't get it. Does eBay really think they are helping keep the answers "secret?"***
I once went to a physical therapist who bragged about his fraternity's filing cabinet full of tests and the answers to them. He was rather stupid and I changed therapists.
Sometime later I worked at a university for a professor who, under the cloak of secrecy, borrowed an exam from another professor and presented it to his class as his own work.
If professors didn't use the same exams over and over again, the students wouldn't be able to cheat so easily.
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