Did you think about murdering your child?!? If you did, then you had/have a much bigger problem than depression!
You either have the capacity in you to murder someone or you don't. It's that simple.
I have suffered from severe clinical depression, too. Yes, I had could not function normally and I acted irrationally and my life fell apart before my eyes, but I never intentionally tried to harm anyone because I did not have that capability in me to begin with.
If she had accidently killed a child, for example, by putting them in the bathtub and leaving them, then this would be a whole nother discussion, but she planned out their deaths. She held a child down under the water until they died right in front of her eyes and then she reached for another child and did the same thing again.
Andrea Yates did have a problem much more severe than mere depression. It is called psychosis.
You either have the capacity in you to murder someone or you don't. It's that simple.
No, it's not that simple. To claim that it is a matter of character illustrates your ignorance of what psychosis is. You might want to volunteer at your local state hospital and meet some people who are truly psychotic. I have watched my own brother--a compassionate and responsible husband and father--get lost in an acute episode of psychosis and seriously consider confronting strangers in the street with a hammer--not because he had violence "in him," but because he truly believed that they were coming to murder him and he needed to defend himself and his family. Psychosis is by definition not logical or coherent, and it is not a matter of character or personal responsibility. By definition, you lose your capacity to perceive the world accurately, and your reasoning does not make sense. To claim otherwise is nothing but ignorance of what psychosis really is and what it does to people.
There are serious problems with the field of mental health in this country. There are a lot of incompetent and politically motivated "mental health professionals" trying to reclassify every sort of bad behavior as a mental disorder in order to excuse the perpetrators. Road rage, sexual "addiction," and personality disorders are good examples. It is natural to be exasperated by people who hide behind mental health diagnoses to gain benefits and avoid responsibilities.
There has been a refreshing movement, under more conservative leadership, toward calling this nonsense what it is and demanding that people be accountable for their own behavior. But in our zealousness to hold people accountable, there is a real risk of throwing out reason and insisting that EVERYTHING is volitional and that there is no such thing as serious mental illness. Psychosis exists, and it can fundamentally change how a person perceives the world and how he or she responds. To treat it as a character disorder is medieval and ignorant.
There is a reason we have the insanity provision in the law. Any attorney experienced in these sorts of cases will tell you that it is an extremely high bar and difficult to meet. Very few cases get defended this way, and an even tinier percentage of those prevail. If we ever had a case with documentation of actual insanity, Andrea Yates's case is that one. A verdict of "guilty but insane" might have been a better option than the not guilty by insanity verdict, but at least it would have acknowledged the role frank psychosis played in this case.
Andrea Yates is NOT Susan Smith. Their motives and characters are not equivalent. I see the same strawman arguments over and over again, as though those trying to create some differentiation between Susan Smith and Andrea Yates are saying that the death of the children was not horrendous or that Yates should be walking the streets. What utter nonsense. But if we cannot make SOME distinction between a pure sociopath plotting evil and a person acting out of delusion and psychosis, we are returning to the medieval age in our conception of mental illness and justice.
Our system of justice is based on guilty beyond reasonable doubt and the fact the person has to understand their crime at the time it occurred. You mentioned having clinical depression and you would never do this? Never say never especially if you are under the care of what todays Psychiatrist are. There is no couch. It's 15 minutes every three months, here have some pills, and have a nice day. NEXT!!! Oh the Pharmaceutical Sales Rep is here practices.
I've witnessed something before in here that likely only one or possibly two Freepers have seen. The rest of you likely never heard of the term Serotonin Syndrome. It can happen from taking antidepressants.
This isn't BS pyscho-babble it's scientific fact that very few of the shrinks who pass out pills and say come back in three months even acknowledge exist.
Research my name with post on antidepressants. When I first signed up in here I was a staunch defender of their usage. Freepers Joe Montana, Metalbird, Al B. and a few others like Rubbertramp will tell you I did this. Thanks to them making me think a life was probably saved possibly two including my own.
I have seen someone in a chemically induced Serotonin Migration. She was lucky in that she could not harm herself nor others but that was because of quadriplegia. The onset can come in minutes. What they see and what they think during this time is their reality. Many doctors mistake this very potentially dangerous or even fatal adverse reaction as mere psychosis never mind the fact they are the ones who gave the meds causing it. So what do the shrinks do? Protocol says Benzo's STAT to counter act it. But they don't see it and instead up the dosage of the offending medication.
The mental health profession namely the psychiatrist have a lot of cleaning up to do in their profession. I would go more on the testimony of a credible Psychologist or a LCSW than I would a shrink. They and not the pyschiatrist actually know the persons mental state and can make better assesments usually. In her case just IMO there is reasonable doubt. I would hold the shrinks testimony. Some have more issues than their patients. No not all are bad but all it takes is one bad shrink to send someone over the edge.
What I'm saying is I can understand how it could happen. She very well could have thought she heard satan. I know someone who says she saw him. She also thought she was Tess on Touched By an Angel. six doctors including shrinks missed Serotonin Syndrome. They scoffed until I showed them the report written by their teaching hospitals Pharmacology Professor.
Reasonable Doubt? It would be a hard one for me. But I think shrinks spend more time doing CYA than actually getting to know and treat their patients as they actually should.
...my dear....severe clinical depression is not similar to severe Post Partum Psychosis.....different animals.....