"They should. It should encompass Northern Iraq and parts of Syria and Iran."
Posted on 07/25/2006 10:28:59 PM PDT by managusta
It appears Turkey is preparing to conduct a larger anti-PKK operation in northern Iraq.
The Turkish government told the US that (paraphrasing) "Turkey will decide (not the US)" if Turkish troops enter Iraq in force." Turkish intelligence consistently reports that from 4000 to 5000 PKK guerrillas are operating from bases inside northern Iraq.
In April 2006 Aaron Glantz wrote that the Turkish government had sent an additional 40,000 troops to southeastern Anatolia, bringing the total troops stationed near the Iraqi border to an estimated 250,000 (close to double the number of U.S. forces in Iraq).
Daniel Pipes reports " Turkish officials signaled Tuesday [July 18] they are prepared to send the army into northern Iraq if U.S. and Iraqi forces do not take steps to combat Turkish Kurdish guerrillas there — a move that could put Turkey on a collision course with the United States.
Turkey is facing increasing domestic pressure to act after 15 soldiers, police and guards were killed fighting the guerrillas in southeastern Turkey in the past week. "The government is really in a bind," said Seyfi Tashan, director of the Foreign Policy Institute at Bilkent University in Ankara. "On the one hand, they don't want things to break down with the United States. On the other hand, the public is crying for action."
Diplomats and experts cautioned the increasingly aggressive Turkish statements were likely aimed at calming public anger and pressing the U.S. and Iraq to act against the Turkish Kurdish guerrillas. But they also said Turkish politicians and military officers could act if nothing is done. …
Turkey's NTV television and Hürriyet newspaper reported the government has told the military to draw up plans for a push into northern Iraq and to advise on the possibilities such an incursion could lead to a clash with Iraqi Kurds or U.S. troops. Any operation was unlikely before the end of August, when the current military chief of staff is replaced by an officer widely regarded as a hard-liner, NTV said. …
Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan appeared to confirm reports that the military was ordered to draft plans when he said Tuesday: "We know how to take care of (terrorism) on our own... Our competent units are making preparations and will continue to do so." Erdoman's spokesman, Akif Beki, refused to comment, but referred to a statement Monday by government spokesman Cemil Çicek. Çicek called on Iraqi and U.S. forces to take stronger action against the rebels and warned that if they did not, "Turkey is going to use its international rights until the very end."
Zaman. com states that "Beyond that, even an invasion is possible. Before Rice's visit, the commander of Turkey's armed forces, Gen. Hilmi Özkök, was asked if his military would ask for permission from Washington before crossing the border into Iraq.
"We cannot make a decision of that kind based on the USA," he said. "Every country is sovereign. Every country makes its own decisions. If the conditions change, you act by the changing conditions."
:'D
Exactly. We went to a great deal of trouble propping up the Kurds and airlifting food to them. Remember the countryside covered with those yellow food packs? The Turks expect us to repeat the airdrops, only with bombs this time?
"Give the Kurds a homeland"
They should. It should encompass Northern Iraq and parts of Syria and Iran.
hehe.. wouldn't that piss off the muzzies.
bttt
"They should. It should encompass Northern Iraq and parts of Syria and Iran."
Don't forget to include southern Turkey.
Yeah, they should have. But they didn't....
ARTICLE 3.
From the Mediterranean to the frontier of Persia, the frontier of Turkey is laid down as follows:
(I ) With Syria:
The frontier described in Article 8 of the Franco-Turkish Agreement of the 20th October, 1921
(2) With Iraq:
The frontier between Turkey and Iraq shall be laid down in friendly arrangement to be concluded between Turkey and Great Britain within nine months.
In the event of no agreement being reached between the two Governments within the time mentioned, the dispute shall be referred to the Council of the League of Nations.
The Turkish and British Governments reciprocally undertake that, pending the decision to be reached on the subject of the frontier, no military or other movement shall take place which might modify in any way the present state of the territories of which the final fate will depend upon that decision.
ARTICLE 4.
The frontiers described by the present Treaty are traced on the one-in-a-million maps attached to the present Treaty. In case of divergence between the text and the map, the text will prevail. [See Introduction.]
Exerpt from the Treaty of Lausanne, 1923
So, yeah, when they dismembered the Ottoman Empire they should have carved out a homeland for the Kurdish Nation. But they didn't. So should they have to give up the territory once it was given them (and that has been internationally accepted for over 80 years now) through a treaty?
One thing to keep in mind, I don't see that Turkey wants to go in and expand their territory. They want to root out the PKK. I don't understand why anybody would want to defend that group:
From the State Department's Foreign Terrorist Organization (FTO) list:
21. Kongra-Gel (KGK, formerly Kurdistan Workers' Party, PKK, KADEK)
From the 2005, Country Reports on Terrorism, Chapter 3
Northern Iraq/Southeastern Turkey. The Kongra-Gel/PKK maintains an active presence in the predominantly ethnic Kurdish areas of southeastern Turkey and northern Iraq. The Kongra-Gel/PKK operates several base camps along the border in northern Iraq from which it provides logistical support to forces that launch attacks into Turkey, primarily against Turkish security forces, local Turkish officials, and villagers who oppose the organization.
From the State Department's 2003 Patterns of Global Terrorism Report, Appendix B
Description
Founded in 1978 as a Marxist-Leninist insurgent group primarily composed of Turkish Kurds. The group’s goal has been to establish an independent, democratic Kurdish state in the Middle East. In the early 1990s, the PKK moved beyond rural-based insurgent activities to include urban terrorism. Turkish authorities captured Chairman Abdullah Ocalan in Kenya in early 1999; the Turkish State Security Court subsequently sentenced him to death. In August 1999, Ocalan announced a “peace initiative,” ordering members to refrain from violence and requesting dialogue with Ankara on Kurdish issues. At a PKK Congress in January 2000, members supported Ocalan’s initiative and claimed the group now would use only political means to achieve its public goal of improved rights for Kurds in Turkey. In April 2002 at its 8th Party Congress, the PKK changed its name to the Kurdistan Freedom and Democracy Congress (KADEK) and proclaimed a commitment to nonviolent activities in support of Kurdish rights. Despite this pledge, a PKK/KADEK spokesman stated that its armed wing, The People’s Defense Force, would not disband or surrender its weapons for reasons of self-defense. In late 2003, the group sought to engineer another political face-lift, renaming the group Kongra-Gel (KGK) and brandishing its “peaceful” intentions, while continuing to commit attacks and refuse disarmament. First designated in October 1997.
Activities
Primary targets have been Turkish Government security forces in Turkey, local Turkish officials, and villagers who oppose the organization in Turkey. Conducted attacks on Turkish diplomatic and commercial facilities in dozens of West European cities in 1993 and again in spring 1995. In an attempt to damage Turkey’s tourist industry, the then PKK bombed tourist sites and hotels and kidnapped foreign tourists in the early-tomid 1990s. KGK continued to engage in violent acts—including at least one terrorist attack—against the Turkish state in 2003. Several members were arrested in Istanbul in late 2003 in possession of explosive materials.
Strength
Approximately 4,000 to 5,000, most of whom currently are located in northern Iraq. Has thousands of sympathizers in Turkey and Europe.
Location/Area of Operation Operates primarily in Turkey, Europe, and the Middle East.
External Aid
Has received safehaven and modest aid from Syria, Iraq, and Iran. Syria and Iran appear to cooperate with Turkey against KGK in a limited fashion when it serves their immediate interests. KGK uses Europe for fundraising and conducting political propaganda.
There are also allegations of links between the PKK and Hezbollah.
From: Library of Congress, THE NEXUS AMONG TERRORISTS, NARCOTICS TRAFFICKERS, WEAPONS PROLIFERATORS, AND ORGANIZED CRIME NETWORKS IN WESTERN EUROPE, 2002:
The PKK/KADEK
The Turkey-based Kurdistan Workers’ Party (Partiya Karkaren Kurdistan, PKK—renamed in 2001 the Freedom and Democracy Congress of Kurdistan, KADEK) is a terrorist organization with various illegal trafficking and money-laundering activities that depend heavily on links in Western Europe. Because it is known to have dealt extensively with criminal organizations in trafficking both arms and narcotics, the PKK has been an important nexus of criminal activities with terrorism. The group’s scope of terrorist operations has been significantly reduced since the arrest of its leader, Abdullah Öcalan, in 1999.
The PKK was founded in 1974 as a Marxist-Leninist insurgent group consisting mainly of Kurds living in Turkey. The organization’s original goal was to establish a Kurdish state in southeastern Turkey, where about half of the world’s 30 million Kurds live with arguably insufficient recognition of their status. In recent years, that goal has changed from independence to autonomy for Kurds within the Turkish state. The reaction of the government of Turkey has been severe repression, based on the assertion that Kurdish autonomy is a threat to the indivisibility of the state. From 1988 to 1998, the PKK confronted Turkey with what some experts rated the most serious terrorist threat in the world, graduating in the early 1990s from rural insurgency to highly effective urban terrorism that included suicide bombings. Attacks have targeted both Turkish security forces and civilians (often, Kurds accused of cooperating with the Turkish state). The group also has attacked Turkish targets in Western Europe. The government of Turkey claims that between 1988 and 1998 the PKK killed more than 25,000 Turks, mostly in attacks launched within Turkey. At the same time, the PKK was engaging in narcotics trafficking, arson, blackmail, and extortion in many West European countries.
Although PKK leader Abdullah Öcalan declared a “peace initiative” after his capture in 1999 and the organization has claimed recently to be transforming itself from a militant group into a political movement, the organization has remained active enough for Turkish security forces to conduct major cross-border operations against it in northern Iraq, where the majority of PKK members have taken refuge, in late 2001.64 In November 2002, eleven Turkish soldiers died in another military operation in Iraqi Kurdistan. However the same month the Turkish government ended the 15-year state of emergency that had been established in southeastern Turkey in response to the PKK’s activities. Although in 2002 no terrorist incidents were attributed to the PKK, experts believe that the supportive structure of its criminal activities remains in place. According to a recent report, “an analysis of PKK funding indicates the PKK is adopting patterns of behavior similar to the Philippine-based Abu Sayyaf group, which eschews civic and cultural duties and concentrates attention on criminal activities to sustain a small, but threatening, military presence.
The PKK has funded its terrorist activities from a number of illegal enterprises, including the trafficking of narcotics and people, combined with voluntary and forced contributions from the Kurdish diaspora. In Europe, regional criminal organizations parallel terrorist and political cells and have common membership. Some of the group’s illicit profits come from a sophisticated people-smuggling network that transports refugees from northern Iraq to Italy. The three most frequently used routes for this movement are Istanbul-Milan, Istanbul-Bosnia-Milan, and Turkey-Tunisia-Malta-Italy. In the 1990s, the PKK also was identified with significant amounts of international arms smuggling. According to anecdotal evidence, the PKK supplied arms to other Kurdish terrorist groups and to the Tamil Tigers of Sri Lanka. Banks in Belgium, Cyprus, Jersey, and Switzerland provide privacy for PKK funds; monetary transactions are done through the hawala system or by cash couriers.
The most profitable illegal activity, however, has been narcotics trafficking. Germany’s chief prosecutor asserted that 80 percent of narcotics seized in Europe have been linked to the PKK or “other Turkish groups,” which then have used the profits from illegal narcotics to purchase arms. Apparently this statistic combines the PKK with other Kurdish and ethnic Turkish criminal groups, which also are very active in sending narcotics into Western Europe.
For this reason, the PKK’s true share of the narcotics market in Western Europe cannot be ascertained precisely. Experts agree, however, that the PKK has benefited handsomely from the location of Kurdistan in the far southeastern corner of Turkey, closest to the major narcotics sources of South Asia and Central Asia. This location has allowed it to play a major role in moving drugs westward. The organization’s narcotics activities connect it with major criminal groups in Istanbul and with high officials in the Turkish government.
A variety of agencies, including the U.S. Department of State, the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration, the United Nations International Drug Control Programme, and the Observatoire Géopolitique des Drogues, have documented the PKK’s high level of narcotics trafficking throughout the 1990s. During that decade, the International Police Organisation (Interpol) followed the narcotics smuggling activities of several Kurdish clans based in Germany, Italy, the Netherlands, and Spain and thought to have ties with the PKK.
According to Turkish security expert Ali Koknar, PKK cooperation with Kurdish criminal clans has been similar to the cooperation among Sicilian mafia families. The PKK is a multilevel business organization that is involved in all phases of the narcotics trade, from production to retail distribution. The first phase is laboratory production from a morphine base, usually obtained from Pakistan; the final phase is sale on the street in Europe through pushers employed by the organization. The PKK is known to operate laboratories in Turkey and northern Iraq. Distribution networks also are used to sell ready-made heroin, morphine base, cannabis, and anhydride acid, a raw material imported into Turkey from Germany for heroin production. Besides trafficking done by individual cells to support their operations, the PKK also “taxes” ethnic Kurdish drug traffickers in Western Europe.
Bottom line: I appreciate that folks don't like Turkey. Particularly after the stance they took in 2003 (the fools: they trusted France). But if Israel has a right to bomb Lebanon to root out Hezbollah, then Turkey surely has a right to bomb northern Iraq to root out the PKK. Hate Turkey if you want...but I wouldn't support or defend a bunch of filthy terrorists in order to facilitate that hatred.
Turkey has a longer border with Iran and Syria then it does with Iraq. Yet, all we hear Turkey complain about is the 'terrible' Iraqi Kurds. Turkey should be assembling troops on its Iranian or Syrian borders. The entire western world would see the logic with that deployment.
Nevertheless, the point is still pretty valid. That's also probably why they massed troops on the Northern border of Iraq during Desert Storm (apart from holding down some Iraqi divisions). With Iraqi troops in the north drawn down to fight the Americans and our allies in Kuwait (remember, not many were expecting the super-quick victory our forces achieved) the Kurds would be free to run amuck.
Sure, it's sad (arguably) that the Kurds do not have a state of their own, but unless we are willing to let the countries in the region hash it out (like Europe did over the centuries) and form their boundaries through force of arms, what else is there to do? It's not my place to say whether they deserve a state (all that I've read has suggested that they are good and loyal allies), but I doubt they'd be able to form a viable one by themselves (even with Northern Iraqi oil wells).
Anyways, last I checked, the PKK is a commie organization.
The Turkish military used to be pretty secular (in fact, I think they're supposed to prevent an islamist takeover (they obviously failed)). Anyways, I think this is just a ruse like the article suggests to get the U.S. to clamp down on the violent Kurds in the north while appealing to the citizenry.
Someone made the point that the Kurds are well-trained and equipped. What do you think about the Turks? After all, they've been fighting the Kurds for some time. And it's been a while, but IIRC they did a good job in Korea.
The Kurds are horribly oppressed in both Syria and Iran. The PKK is unable to launch any of their terrorist operations against Turkey from either of these places. The safe haven created by the US in Northern Iraq, while a relief for civilian Kurds, also provides the PKK terrorists a safe haven to which they can retreat and from which they can plan and launch their terrorism.
I agree. I've thought the same thing. I don't think Islam is prepared for that yet.
"Would you support a homeland for the Amerindians at the expense of the United States?"
Or even the illegal Amer-exicans?
Why would the U.S. and the non-Commie Kurds allow the socialists to operate with impunity? Looks like a little housecleaning is in order for the democratic Kurds.
The same plan should now be in effect for "Syria".
However, since the Kurds have (more or less) helped us, now we have to help them.
I had read that the Turkish govt. wanted a larger payment or shakedown from Uncle Sam to allow us to use their country to go into Iraq.
We balked at the sum and told the turks to shove it.
It appears that nobody but you and I realize that the PPK are commie scum.
In the history of borders in this barbarous region, 80 years is nothing.
The Treaties of Lausanne and Sevres do not serve the interests of the United States and should be abrogated.
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