Terrestrial Evidence of a Nuclear Catastrophe in Paleoindian Times

Mammoth Trumpet ^ | March 2001 | Firestone/Topping

[timer]

Well, it will be an interesting debate, intellectually stimulating. A bolide shower of micrometeorite sphericules as in the tunguka event of 1908 would not leave a pattern of only vertical impacts, more of a spray instead; whereas the shock wave from a supernova would do just that. Recently the magnetosphere/ionosphere was hammered down into the stratosphere by a distant energy burst so these events are more common than rare : it's a violent universe out there, amazing that we've lasted this long. Example : the indonesian super volcano that produced a nuclear winter for 3 years 74,000 years ago, almost wiping out our homo sapien ancestors. We see this in the mitochondrial DNA record : only a few hundred individuals survived out of what must have been a much larger population. Science, not theologians, opens the book on many of these mysteries.

[ForGod'sSake]

The arrangement of bays on the landscape is not random...

I may not be following your argument, but if you'll take a look at the bays with Google Earth, you'll find the bays are in fact very random. They tend to occur in clusters AND in bands roughly following the present coastline when they occur. There are large gaps between visible bays along the coast.

If Google Earth is any good, elevation seems to play a part the placement of the bays. I found only one small cluster at a current elevation under `35 feet. An anomoly within an enigma??? Or maybe it was one of those beaver ponds???

My best guesstimate is that there are no visible bays within roughly 2 - 3 miles of the present coast. I was also unable to find any above a present elevation of about 70 feet. I don't know what to make of that.

In years of intensive field examination of soil surfaces in the area, I never once found fused glass, and I am not aware that any soil micromorphologists have found shocked quartz in surface layers from the Pee Dee.

FWIW, it looks like a giant orange slush may have hit the ground; or nearly hit the ground. IOW, something relatively soft like a snowball or snowcone. Impossible? I haven't a clue.

There is another report I read a while back whilst searching for God-knows-what that mentioned velocities of various objects floating, er, sailing around the universe. Seems these things are in a hurry. But the earth itself is also in a hurry. The point I wonder about is what would happen if a comet/meteor/whatever traveling only somewhat faster than our earth(if possible) gradually overtook the earth and entered the atmosphere at a speed approaching something we can wrap our brains around(or at least mine)?

They are all pointing in the direction that water travels!

Which coincidentally is roughly from a more or less single point landward.....around Michigan??? That is to say, the ejecta such as it is, all point towards the ocean.

The bays have become a curiousity to me that I check on from time to time to see what's new. Usually nothing, but the discussions still continue because there has not been a concensus reached by the "scientific community". Fact is, they may never be explained to everyone's satisfaciton. Too bad really.

FGS

[ForGod'sSake]

I'll cast my vote for the latter.

Heh. Would you put him in the Nostradamus(sp) school of theory and prophesy? That is, if you've got a big enough shotgun, you'll hit something every once in a while?

[Renfield]

"....I may not be following your argument[no,you aren't], but if you'll take a look at the bays with Google Earth, you'll find the bays are in fact very random...."

I spent more than decade examining them both up close, on the ground, and using high-altitude aerial photography, and they are in fact not random at all. There is a very definite pattern, and it is not associated with ejecta. If you and I were standing in front of the topographi and geology maps I used when mapping soils in South Carolina, I could prove it to you in a skinny minute. Unfortunately I can't think of anything you can pull up on the web that would show you photos of the ground, overlain upon topo and geologic data layers, with enough detail and accuracy to prove my point.

Also, I mapped bays at elevations much higher than 70 feet. I don't want to quote a figure off the top of my head, and all of my geology maps are at work, but I'll try to look up some tomorrow.

As I write this, I have another browser window open to the Web Soil Survey ( http://websoilsurvey.nrcs.usda.gov/app/WebSoilSurvey.aspx ), and I've navigated to an area in the northeastern corner of Marlboro County, SC, near the intersection of U.S.1 and Kimrey road. This area is an old paleoterrace (I'm thinking Paleocene era, although it might be as late as Miocene), at an elevation of, I think, about 300 feet...Carolina Bays are visible (and, interestingly, their long axis points toward Greenland, not Michigan, although across U.S.1, Pegues Road crosses a bay with the usual NW-SE orientation).

[wyattearp]

Would you put him in the Nostradamus(sp) school of theory and prophesy? That is, if you've got a big enough shotgun, you'll hit something every once in a while?

With the barrels sawed off to the forestock and the triggers wired together... ;-)

[airborne]

Does this mean carbon dating may be flawed?

[tet68]

Neutron Flux, ick, I hate that stuff, it's so hard to get off.

[festus]

Well 1950 can hardly be construed as the present.

[MadJack]

There is an exchange of letters between Velikovsky and Einstein posted on the net. Einstein credited Velikovsky with being a good historian and patient researcher, but implied, he was too nice to come right out with it, that V's knowledge of astronomy and physics was not up to scientific standards.
Check out Earth in Upheaval. Carl Sagan may not have liked it, but it's an interesting read.

[Fraxinus]

With a little passing knowledge I think that it would be unusual to find any of these "carolina bays" above approx. 250ft which I think was sea level at the height of the last interglacial. These stuctures are not only found in south carolina they are found through out the Atlantic coastal plain, all the way to New Jersey as I think that parts of the pine barrens are like structures. Also many of these have long since been drained to make farmland.

[ForGod'sSake]

...and they are in fact not random at all. There is a very definite pattern, and it is not associated with ejecta.

First of all I want to thank you for the link to the Web Soil site. Great resolution; better than Google in this particular case. Google has some fine resolution only in certain areas; this ain't one of 'em. Anyway, this pic from the general area you mentioned for our perusal. FWIW, Google shows elevations in the area generally running from ~180' to 200':

Now I ask you, who do you want me to believe, you or my lyin' eyes???

...with enough detail and accuracy to prove my point.

Well, if the point is you don't believe it's possible the bays were created by a furrin object, you've got a ways to go to actually prove it. To the layman(that would be me), the first impression is something soft whacked the eastern seaboard of the US(before it was the US). That said, I think included within some of the links I posted at the beginning of this thread, there was a man who set out to find other bays on coastlines somewhere in the world(If I weren't so lazy I would backtrack and look, but I have already spent a lot more time on this than I ever thought I would). The results from one account were mixed at best. That is, the man found something that remotely resembled bays in just two places, Alaska and another spot I can't recall.

And so it goes....

FGS

[ForGod'sSake]

Does this mean carbon dating may be flawed?

To tell you the honest truth airborne, I take with a grain of salt most anything I see from the "scientific community" any more. Just a gut feeling, but there seems to be a cabal of sorts running things scientific(academia?). To the outsider, it looks as though when one who doesn't follow the script, they are lambasted mercilessly by the cabal. But whadda I know???

[ForGod'sSake]

;^)

[ASA Vet]

The article is about events 12,000 to 32,000 years BP. 1950 was 56 years ago.
56 years is .47% for the 12,000 years BP figure, and .18% using the 32,000 year BP dating.
Those percentiles are probably well below the dating methods ± error rate so the 56 years is meaningless.

If the event was 100,000,000 years BP the 56 years would amount to a whopping .000056%.
Maybe in a few hundred years scientists will need to adjust the set point to sometime more current.

[Fred Nerks]

Sorry...

[ForGod'sSake]

With the barrels sawed off to the forestock and the triggers wired together... ;-)

Reminds me of an uncle of mine; God rest his soul...

Well, answer me this: Does he have any redeeming social value???

[ForGod'sSake]

Einstein credited Velikovsky with being a good historian and patient researcher, but implied, he was too nice to come right out with it, that V's knowledge of astronomy and physics was not up to scientific standards.

Which would probably be true since he was an MD. Ran across an interesting passage when taking a quick look re Einstein/Velikovsky; found this from HERE: Nine days after their final meeting Einstein died, and a copy of Worlds in Collision was found open on his desk. He was rereading it because latest discoveries concerning Jupiter had confirmed one of Velikovsky's predictions.

The man apparently had some insights, no?

[MadJack]

No problem at all, friend.

Totos secui es nobis.

[Fred Nerks]

Evidence rarely analyzed is introduced that no catastrophist researcher has ever presented, with hundreds of footnotes. For example, in the field of radiocarbon dating of extinction, research has never dealt with the phenomenon of the Seuss Effect, which introduced so much additional Carbon 12 and 13 to the atmosphere in those ancient times, that all dates pertaining to the extinction, derived by this method, should no longer be accepted. As another example, ice core research carried out in Greenland and Antarctica, as well as in Devil's Hole, Nevada, thoroughly discredits the Milankovitch theory as an explanation of Ice Ages. Iridium and other materials have been found in these ice cores that defy uniformitarian expectations. As Walter Broecker of the Lamont-Doherty Oceanographic Observatory states: "Climate Modelers should start preparing themselves for a world without Milankovitch."


http://www.velikovskian.com/backissu.htm

[ForGod'sSake]

Holy $HIT! The motherlode. Thanks for that link.

BTW, would you mind giving me your general impressions of V's work???