Broken Borders: Broken Promises (Simcox-Minuteman)

ABC 15 Investigators ^ | 4/27/2006 | Staff

[Amelia]

What are you whining about? The ABC video is a joke. A bad one.

If anyone is "whining", it's you. I just asked for some facts to counter the video.

Have you watched it yet? Can you tell me why it's wrong?

Y'all love to go after regular folks who have managed to accomplish something good for America's security by standing up the grassroots. You act like them raising and spending money in their efforts is somehow dirty.

From what I gather here, there are several groups calling themselves "Minutemen" and some of those agree with the viewpoint of the video.

I just asked whether or not ONE group of Minutemen is doing what they claim they are doing, and what they have raised money to do. From what I can gather, so far they have not done what they claim they are doing.

I certainly hope that's not a condemnation of ALL the groups, or of the idea of protecting the border, which the Federal government has certainly been remiss in.

But you don't make a peep as the RNC and the sycophantic captive DC organizations and the Beltway Bandits rake in literally billions to finance their Lexus' and their mansions to keep their liberal incumbents in power.

That's a subject for a different thread, but I'm sure you'd get a lot of agreement if you wanted to post one...with facts, of course.

[dirtboy]

Simcox had a duty to know what the issues are and what the cost would be before presenting detailed specifications of the fence he was going to build, post it on his website and collect donations based on those specs.

Really? I imagine the costs of getting a border wall approved would be rather substantial, with a lot of give-and-take between the county and the builders. I guess you don't have much experience with local development issues.

The point is, much of what is being done is symbolic, just as having volunteers over short sections of the border is mostly symbolic. But symbols are very powerful in today's politics, and I doubt anyone who has donated money for the fence is gonna bitch about some of the money being needed for local planning approval and fighting left-wing lawsuits.

[EternalVigilance]

To: Texasforever

If you follow some of the links I posted to FEC/and OPENSECRETS they have reported 304k.

Nah, he won't pay any attention to stuff like facts. He's having too much fun throwing out innuendo.

[dirtboy]

340k with a maximum 15k fence built to date and no further work underway. Tell me, does that seem a bit odd?

Not at all, for the reasons clearly stated here - I have posted a link to an article about Cochise County legal concerns.

[catholicfreeper]

He cant give all the money back. Heck alot of it has been sent to the consultants in DC that have run all this fundraising operation. Someone has got to pay for the folks for all the breathless headlines that are sent over internet and then posted here and other places that inform us everytime a illegal gets speeding ticket. THis is alot more than just a fence.Most of the stuff(internet article and news alerts) that we see posted on here are owned and operated by just a couple of people. They also own all the direct mail and other thing to which they take a cut.

The first question I would like to ask is who owns WorldnetDaily. Then I would be curious if they own any of the above mentioned profitmaking directMail, pay for fax to Seantor operation etc. THe fence is a part of it, but it is also a symbol to get people to contribute the bucks into the assorted other enterprises.

[Texasforever]

The point is, much of what is being done is symbolic,

If that is true then Simcox needs to be behind bars. He raised money for a serious keep people out fence. If he wanted symbolism then he could have strung 50 feet of chicken wire and leave it at that. I have a strong feeling that Simcox will be behind bars.

[Texasforever]

The only fact he showed me was that Keyes/Simcox had raised more money than I had thought.

[dirtboy]

If that is true then Simcox needs to be behind bars

And this is where you cross the line - taking my opinion and then calling for him to go to jail. Which is despicable, and which ends our conversation - you are clearly more interested in your own agenda than in the underlying aspects of this story. Later, gator.

[Texasforever]

I know that. The money raised to date is long gone.

[Texasforever]

No, I am going on his past. He is a con artist and he will be breaking rocks.

[catholicfreeper]

I was trying to find a connection with the CoCC and the Minuteman in my research. IT was then that I found out about the falling out. I have a record of hating the CoCC by the way
PLus if the CoCC is so horrible(which it is) why was it and it members in the minutemen.

As for horrible admissions. In court cases every day people of not so great character testify against criminal defendants. IN this case just because someone is with the CoCC it is not going to stop A Federal Prosecuting Attorney from putting them and all the other cretains that were associated with this folks on the stand in order to get a possible conviction.

[EternalVigilance]

Have you watched it yet? Can you tell me why it's wrong?

Because it is a propaganda hit-piece...loaded with innuendo, but short on facts.

The burden of proof is on those making the accusations. Do you have any proof?

All I have seen so far are Chris Simcox's very powerful enemies trying to take him down in a very brutal sort of way.

[deport]

From your link....

Border fence divides activists

By Jonathan Clark

Minuteman Civil Defense Corps leader Chris Simcox
gauges the progress of a range fence at a May 27
groundbreaking ceremony in Palominas.
(By Jonathan Clark-Herald/Review

Herald/Review

BISBEE — A campaign by the Minutemen to build border fences on private land is facing growing criticism from other anti-illegal-immigration groups, as well from some of its original membership.

The critics complain that the organization formally known as the Minuteman Civil Defense Corps has been raising large amounts of money for a costly Israeli-style barrier but has been building only inexpensive range fencing. And they direct their disapproval squarely at Minuteman founder and president, Chris Simcox.

For his part, Simcox calls the criticism unfounded and petty, and insists his group will soon begin to construct the two-layered, Gaza Strip-model fencing as promised.

Last month, the Sierra Vista-based anti-illegal-immigration group American Patrol posted a report on its Web site comparing the barbed-wire livestock fence the Minutemen built at John and Jack Ladd’s ranch in Palominas with the design for an Israeli-style security barrier that had been promised on the Minuteman Web site.

The report, titled “Border fence scam? Simcox fence project raises doubts,” urged readers to refrain from donating to the fence program until the Minutemen prove they can build a human-proof barrier.

The president of American Patrol, Glenn Spencer, said he was initially skeptical of the campaign due to his own experiences with Cochise County’s planning and zoning regulations. But he said he decided to speak out after he heard a Phoenix-area man had mortgaged his house to donate $120,000 for the fence.

Spencer said the Minutemen had told supporters their fence would cost $300,000 per mile and urged them to donate generously.

But he said the fencing they have built so far runs closer to $8,000 per mile.

“We have supported the Minutemen and Chris Simcox’s efforts for years,” Spencer said.

“However, in this instance, I felt they went too far in their zeal to gain support.”

Simcox rejected the idea the Minutemen had misrepresented their fence project. He said his group has always made it clear they planned to build a variety of barriers tailored to fit the needs of individual property owners. And he said the Ladds’ fence is still a work in progress, with vehicle barriers and concertina wire to be added at a later date.

Two Naco-area landowners signed up to participate in the next phase of fence-building are interested in a more elaborate barrier, Simcox said, and so the Minuteman Civil Defense Corps have been purchasing materials and consulting with engineers in preparation for a groundbreaking later this month.

“It will be built,” Simcox said of the double-layered, 14-foot security fence. “We’ve just got people jumping to conclusions and going absolutely overboard with conspiracy theories.”

One of the groups lending their voice to the criticism is the Texas Minutemen, an organization Simcox says has been bitter toward him since it was expelled by the Minuteman Civil Defense Corps in April 2005 for carrying rifles and using racist language. Last week, the Texas group posted a bulletin to its Web site supporting the American Patrol report and deriding a call by Simcox for $55 million in donations to build 70 additional miles of border fencing in Arizona.

But it is not just the group’s rivals who are skeptical of the fence plan. Even longtime supporter Richard Humphries of Courtland, one of the original Minutemen, sees some validity to Spencer’s concerns.

“I know that if I had donated $100,000 to build a fence to fight illegal immigration and then found out that my money had been spent to build a five-strand, barbed-wire fence to keep cattle out, I’d be a little unhappy,” he said.

Humphries was quick to add he does not believe that Simcox is trying to deceive his supporters. He sees the problem as one of overambition and a lack of understanding of the complexities of building a large-scale, anti-illegal-immigration barrier.

Spencer, however, is more cynical. He recalls a May 27 groundbreaking ceremony at the Ladds’ ranch where Simcox gathered with politicians, supporters and dozens of media representatives at a 150-foot stretch of poles meant as a demonstration model of the Israeli-style barrier.

“Standing in front of 14-foot poles while you’re advertising 14-foot fences on your Web site, and collecting money to build it while knowing full well you are not going to be able to, well, that’s deception,” Spencer said.

Simcox said such criticism amounts to little more than sour grapes. “(Spencer) has been competitive and envious of our success since the beginning,” he said. “I just don’t understand why he can’t keep his eye on the common goal, which is getting the government to do its job of enforcing the border.”

JONATHAN CLARK can be reached at 515-4693 or jonathan.clark@bisbeereview.net.

[COEXERJ145]

OBL (Open Border Lobby) is the slanderous name used by certain people to denigrate other FReepers who don't share their obsession about immigration. It used to be FROBL (Free Republic Open Border Lobby) but I guess they got tired of having to type two extra letters.

At least the word "Quisling" doesn't get tossed around as much. That pretty much stopped when a certain person was banned.

[EternalVigilance]

I have a strong feeling that Simcox will be behind bars.

You'd have made a good operative for Stalin.

[Texasforever]

All I have seen so far are Chris Simcox's very powerful enemies trying to take him down in a very brutal sort of way.

Why are you so defensive? There are folks from every point of the political compass questioning this. Why are you so afraid of the questions being asked?

[Amelia]

The first question I would like to ask is who owns WorldnetDaily.

Joseph Farah brings more than 25 years of newspaper experience, including stints as editor in chief of major market dailies, to WorldNetDaily.com. Elizabeth Farah brings years of marketing, strategic planning, design and technology experience to the project. Now, teamed with a lean but growing full-time staff of 25, WorldNetDaily.com is poised to spark a media revolution.

[EternalVigilance]

For his part, Simcox calls the criticism unfounded and petty

*snip*

Simcox said such criticism amounts to little more than sour grapes. “(Spencer) has been competitive and envious of our success since the beginning,” he said. “I just don’t understand why he can’t keep his eye on the common goal, which is getting the government to do its job of enforcing the border.”

Sounds about right.

[COEXERJ145]

Farah is the main reason it is referred to as World Nut Daily.

[EternalVigilance]

Why are you so afraid of the questions being asked?

Afraid? Hardly. Scornful would be the better descriptive...since I know who is pushing the slanderous campaign against Simcox and why.