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Teacher Salaries: More Attention Needed to Specifics ( The Millionaire Next Door)
EducationNews.org ^ | June 16, 2006 | David W. Kirkpatrick

Posted on 06/17/2006 5:15:15 AM PDT by wintertime

One of the ongoing controversies in the public schools is the issue of teacher salaries. Teachers largely claim they are too low while taxpayers are equally vehement that they are more than adequate.

(snip)

Then there are the actual salary levels. Statistics in 2005 showed the average teacher salary in the nation was $46,762, ranging from a low of $33,236 in South Dakota to $57,337 in Connecticut. Even this ignores the additional compensation teachers receive as fringe benefits, which may add an additional 33% or more to the costs, primarily for very good retirement and health coverage plans. Further, averages include starting teacher salaries, which may begin at $30,000 or less, which teachers gladly mention, but ignore the high salaries of career teachers at or near the maximum on their salary schedule, important because retirement pensions are often based on the best three or so years.

(snip)

Last year, the New York State Department of Education issued a study that reported maximum teacher salaries in that state of $100,000 or more and median salaries as high as $98,000 per year. That is, there were districts, in Westchester County for example, where half of the teachers earned more than $98,000 a year.

A novel approach a few years ago by Michael Antonucci, director of the Education Intelligence Agency in California, compared teachers average salaries to average salaries all workers state by state. First prize went to Pennsylvania where the teachers received 62.5% more than the average employee. That difference is even greater when it is further considered that teachers average a 185 day work year while most workers put in 235.

(snip) Women who had been educators were 7.4% of the total deceased that year but 20.6% of them, nearly three times the statistical expectation were among the affluent few. Former male educators didn't do quite as well but even they were represented among the wealthy decedents by a ratio nearly 1.5 times the anticipated numerical ratio.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: education; educrats; govwatch; notbreakingnews; teacherpay; teachers
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To: wintertime
They have summer vacations that more generous than a European worker, and if someone points out that they work 185 days a year, they WHINE that they put in out-of-class room time. Well! SO DOES EVERYONE ELSE!

Tell you what. Go teach then. I grew up every summer watching both of my parents take summer jobs to supplement their 'exorbitant' salaries just to make ends meet. We didn't live in a mansion, didn't have the best vehicles, just an average middle class family. This of course was in part because teachers pay was frozen for close to 15 years here in NC. I remember watching my parents grade papers until late in the evening, PTA conferences and parent/teacher conferences where parents blamed their childrens' inherent stupidity on my parents.

Let me tell you they didn't do it for the money, they did it because they loved teaching.

Add to this that teachers can work more years because they can enter the job market with a B.A. degree and if a masters is needed can often acquire this degree in off hours and during their generous summers..

Yes let's not forget the required conferences teachers must attend during the summers to be re-certified, learn of changes in the curriculum, or work to supplement their salaries

..and again big name colleges are not needed for these advanced degrees ( that are the joke of the academic world)

And of course being the academian that you are you know this how?

161 posted on 06/17/2006 7:56:44 AM PDT by billbears (Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it. --Santayana)
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To: HighWheeler
commedians
Watch out. No one is immune. ;-)
162 posted on 06/17/2006 8:02:32 AM PDT by Clara Lou (A conservative is a liberal who has been mugged by reality. --I. Kristol)
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To: alvindsv

Your's is a weak argument: most daycare workers in my area make minimum wage.


163 posted on 06/17/2006 8:03:44 AM PDT by gingerky
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To: wintertime

Gee, South Dakota pays its teachers the least yet its students are typically among the top achievers. Go figure!


164 posted on 06/17/2006 8:08:18 AM PDT by MIchaelTArchangel
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To: wintertime
Where does all this venom come from? I live in NJ we have high property taxes because the school districts won't consolidate under the county to alleviate administrative costs, each township has their own school district. The teachers are not the problem they just want a living wage considering most of them have masters degrees and must put up with ignorant parents (plenty on this board) and kids I'd say they deserve the pay.

The problem is the politicians, the teachers union (mind you not all teachers belong to the union), and the top heavy administration. As most companies consolidate the overhead school districts don't the overhead is where the politicians get their cronies jobs.
165 posted on 06/17/2006 8:09:24 AM PDT by thomas16
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To: gingerky
Your's is a weak argument: most daycare workers in my area make minimum wage.

And if you had read my previous post, I admitted it was probably not a good analogy. But, then again with over 150 posts, I don't blame you for missing it.

166 posted on 06/17/2006 8:15:02 AM PDT by alvindsv
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To: wintertime

so go be a teacher since they have it so good, you got a serious case of envy going on there ....


167 posted on 06/17/2006 8:15:46 AM PDT by Republican Party Reptile
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To: wintertime
What's the matter? Why'd you get so upset? He made good points. My Mom cares very much about the poor. So she teaches in very bad areas for litle pay. She's okay with that. Still she's nearly infinitely better than her fellow teachers (usually home grown) but still gets paid the same. Some teachers get way over paid, some get underpaid.

Sounds like the teacher you're responding to is underpaid; 32k. Gets about 10 dollars an hour. Not "very generous". Not much for what he does. Having been a lawyer, working 15-18 hours a day, and whatnot. Same thing about the other two here. Sure, they shouldn't get paid what CEOs get. But some get paid almost nothing while others get paid very well. A merit system would be good to reward the people who, like the people here, should get paid more than other teachers.

(BTW-My mom taught in D.C., New Orleans, South Side Tucson, and the poor blacks in Northern Alabama. She's a great teacher but gets paid as much as those who know nothing, went to community college, and don't do anything. And she actually is thinking about founding a childhood center thing)
168 posted on 06/17/2006 8:16:27 AM PDT by onja ("The government of England is a limited mockery.") (France is a complete mockery.)
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To: Amelia
Actually, 9 out of 10 teachers that taught me in public school were old and had had children in their teens, 20s, or older. Maybe my districts were just old :)

And my teachers very rarely missed days. 2-3 days a year except for the Jewish ones(missed 3 or so holidays).
169 posted on 06/17/2006 8:21:54 AM PDT by onja ("The government of England is a limited mockery.") (France is a complete mockery.)
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To: alvindsv
The difference being that those scenarios are possibilities or exceptions to the norm, while raiding my wallet without my consent is the modus operandi for teacher and government salaries.

And if some tax breaks encourage businesses from fleeing our stagnant state economy, then I'm not entirely opposed to them.

My views are shaped by my personal experience as a teacher, and are confined to what the problems are in my state. We have higher salaries than anyone, more strikes than anyone, and a very poor ranking in the student's SAT scores to show for all of this money wasted on inflated salaries and bloated administrations.

The bottom line is, IMO, until the funding follows the student and NOT the school, positive change will not occur.

170 posted on 06/17/2006 8:25:36 AM PDT by Sisku Hanne (Send "Cut-n-Run" Murtha packing. Support Diana Irey for US Congress!)
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To: wintertime
I do have a Masters from a top rated university

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Then you wasted a lot of money.

Damn, that comment makes you a gigantic sucking asshole.

171 posted on 06/17/2006 8:41:10 AM PDT by SwankyC (1st Bn 11th Marines Semper Fi)
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To: onja
And my teachers very rarely missed days.

Most of the teachers I know try not to miss days, but the ones who have small children and the ones who have aging parents in poor health have a harder time of it than those who don't.

I do know a very small number of teachers who feel that "sick days" are there to be used and try to use them all. They aren't nearly the majority, however.

172 posted on 06/17/2006 8:41:42 AM PDT by Amelia (Education exists to overcome ignorance, not validate it.)
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To: Mr Rogers; alvindsv; Molly K.; wintertime
"Teacher's salaries are a small part of the school budget.... most of the cost is in buildings and admin."

Mr. Rogers, An amendment to your statement;) I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night...

Teachers' salaries are not a small part of the school budget. In fact, you can make the argument that they represent the largest part of a school system's operating budget. Here's how:
School budgets are classifed by funds and the sources of these funds dictate how they can be spent. In most states, the bulk of salaries, benefits, utilities, gasoline for buses, purchased goods, and so on are in the general operating fund. Costs for property and buildings are in a separate fund, sometimes called capital outlay. There are other smaller funds in school systems - but these two funds are usally the biggest.

Employee costs (salaries, benefits such as retirement, insurance) range from 65 to 80% or more of the general operating fund of a school system. You can verify this yourself using Algor's invention;)

Employee costs (salaries and benefits) can be further classified as:

Next, some other data:

Therefore... teachers represent the bulk of operating expenses for a school system.

When people discuss *operating costs* of schools, the initial costs of the building or land acquisition are excluded. Building utility and building maintenance costs are usually folded into operating costs.

Don't interpret any of the above as a call for higher teacher salaries. Just wanted to correct the perception that teacher salaries represent a small part of a school's budget.

173 posted on 06/17/2006 8:50:24 AM PDT by bwteim (bwteim = Begin With The End In Mind / Must I always use a sarcasm off tag??)
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To: bwteim

Depends on how you define the school budget.

If you look at it like a business, then I conceed your point.

However, many posters express outrage over the high cost of education, and use the cost/student figures of 8K on up. While the cost of education is darn high, teachers make up well under half of it.

For example, here in Arizona, the local district has spent millions on computer software to track student attendance. They also build schools covered with mosaics and elaborate landscaping.

Since people express outrage over the high cost to them in taxes (which is justified outrage, IMHO), they ought to realize it doesn't go for teacher's salaries.

BTW - my sister recently took up teaching. She says about a third of the school's employees are teachers.


174 posted on 06/17/2006 9:00:43 AM PDT by Mr Rogers
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To: wintertime

"Teachers are WHINERS:"

Hmm, so ALL teachers, everywhere are whiners. Gotta #$&king link for that?

"Teaching does not require a degree from a highly ranked university"

Gosh, this doesn't sound like liberal BS at all...

If teaching is so plum why don't you try it? Both of my parents teach at a public school and have to put up with kids whose parents are elitist morons like you all day. Oh, and combined they make about $78k a year...or 10K less a year than I make in marketing.

Great post, why don't you move along and attack some other hard-working Americans like firefighters. Like every profession there are bad teachers, but there are A LOT who work to make a positive difference in the lives of young people...and they aren't in it for the money.


175 posted on 06/17/2006 9:02:02 AM PDT by goalinestan (Build it...and they won't come (as easily))
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To: Scarchin

Actually, there are usually openings for math and science teachers,and I live in one of the better districts in the state. Probably no issues with student discipline but I'm sure many issues with parents and their perfect child who deserves only an A.

Here are a few issues that I haven't seen discussed and I have read about half of the post.

1. Teachers teaching subjects which they don't have a degree. Teaching math in elementary school doesn't require a math degree. If your kid is being taught Geometry and Calculus, I want a teacher who has a math degree.

2 The phoney stats the teachers union always quotes to say their teachers are the lowest paid in America. In Colorado, the teachers union always say we rank around 40 in teachers salaries. Funny thing was according to the national teachers union, we ranked 25th. One year we need to keep track of what each teachers union says they rank. They cant all rank between 40-50th place.

3. Administrator salaries. In Colorado, we have some small districts but their superindents get paid the same as the super in Denver. These smaller districts have half the students, faculty, etc but want the same salary as the super of the largest districts in the state. It doesn't just apply to administrators. The board that runs the buses for the Denver Metro area always compares their salaries to places like NYC or other large metro areas. The board will say they deserve an pay increase to be comparable. The denver RTD board has a fraction of the employees and equipment of NYC but want a comparable salary.

There are many more. Heck most professionals have to take additional classes on our own time and dime to stay current. Its part of the price of being a professional.


176 posted on 06/17/2006 9:04:02 AM PDT by art_rocks
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To: moose2004
My sister in law teaches 10th grade English in southern California and makes $70,000 a year. Not bad.

My brother recently sold his condo in Newport for a million dollars to a single (30's) high school teacher.

177 posted on 06/17/2006 9:12:06 AM PDT by oldbrowser (We must act today in order to preserve tomorrow......R.R)
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To: sportutegrl
Good morning.
"When was the last time Exxon threatened to take your home if you failed to pay your taxes?"


Also, when was the last time you were forced to pay the salaries of Exxon employees whether you bought their product or not?

Michael Frazier
178 posted on 06/17/2006 9:25:30 AM PDT by brazzaville (no surrender no retreat, well, maybe retreat's ok)
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To: wintertime

"when was the last time you saw a teacher wearing a beeper because they were on 24/7 emergency call?"

Seen a lot of plumbers wearing pagers/beepers, but then again, it IS their chosen profession...


179 posted on 06/17/2006 9:31:19 AM PDT by dakine
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To: maine-iac7
Actually, yes they did, 84% proficient in Language, 87% proficient in reading and in mathematics 90% were proficient.

BTW I teach Life Science.

You are correct however and I should have checked my grammar before posting.

180 posted on 06/17/2006 9:33:25 AM PDT by mware (Americans in armchairs doing the job of the media.)
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