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You are misrepresenting things in post 37. She is saying that the psychological treatment offered by ex-gay ministries sometimes fails sincere people. Clearly she is not expecting to pray and have her feelings go away. She is expecting to pray and have her behavior controlled. She doesn't think the desire is itself a sin, so she doesn't know she needs to repent of it.

How do you suppose people repented of homosexuality before psychological treatments were developed? When Paul says, "such were some of you..." where does he mention their psychologists.

I don't want to be too tough on you. Congratulations on your many successes. I am happy that psychoanalysis therapy helped you. I just wish you wouldn't promote the idea that faith isn't enough. It clearly was enough in the Apostle Paul's day. I am especially bothered by the ex-gay movement's push in the public schools. Leave the kids alone. If you want to offer therapies, do it outside of public, compulsory education. You don't speak for everyone. Your cause is noble enough, and much of what you say is beneficial. But your theology is greatly lacking, and I just can't overlook that.

Ghost and SoulMan, I think what you both have to say is valuable and deserves respectful discussion (which, thank you, is what we have had so far: isn't that a FReepin' wonderment!)

I want to add that it is possible to sin in thought as well as in word and deed: that is, cherishing and nurturing within you any kind of corrupt thought (whether it be lust, envy, revenge, hatred, contempt of others, pride or whatever) is morally offensive in itself and leads to even worse outward manifestations.

However, involuntary feelings, though they are objectively disordered, are not morally culpable, You can, and should, try with all the faith and skill and persistence and tenacity you have, to banish disordered feelings (and some people, maybe after years of struggle, do so successfully); but if feelings come back un-willed and un-called-for, this constituted a trial, a vexation, and a temptation, but not a sin. You can't be guilty of anything you did not will. No more than you could be guilty of a dream.

Nobody knows what they "thorn in the flesh" was that St. Paul wanted to vehemently to be free of (he felt like it was Satan beating him up) --- but it might have been just this sort of involuntary inward temptation.

FYI I remember from waaaay back a study in university which said if you do ANYTHING to treat a behavior problem you will have a 40% success rate. Waive a stick, do a jig, just talk, and you will achieve the desired behavior change for the individual who wants to change.