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1 posted on 06/12/2006 10:48:34 AM PDT by robowombat
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To: robowombat

No doubt there were Iraqi's nearby who saw the whole thing.


2 posted on 06/12/2006 10:54:50 AM PDT by OldFriend (I Pledge Allegiance to the Flag.....and My Heart to the Soldier Who Protects It.)
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To: robowombat

bttt


3 posted on 06/12/2006 10:57:59 AM PDT by amigatec (There are no significant bugs in our software... Maybe you're not using it properly.- Bill Gates)
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To: robowombat

I'll bet just about everything about ancient and midieval history is less romantic than it might seem.


4 posted on 06/12/2006 11:02:26 AM PDT by Larry Lucido
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To: blam

You might find this of interest


7 posted on 06/12/2006 11:07:53 AM PDT by Libertarianize the GOP (Make all taxes truly voluntary)
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To: robowombat

It's a fascinating place. I have been there.


8 posted on 06/12/2006 11:11:38 AM PDT by silverleaf (Fasten your seat belts- it's going to be a BUMPY ride.)
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To: robowombat
Ahhh, doesn't this place Jews in the Middle East before the Muslims?

So then it's really the Muslims who are living on "Occupied Land"??
9 posted on 06/12/2006 11:11:54 AM PDT by PeteB570 (Guns, what real men want for Christmas)
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To: robowombat

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/masada.html


10 posted on 06/12/2006 11:12:50 AM PDT by silverleaf (Fasten your seat belts- it's going to be a BUMPY ride.)
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To: robowombat
Israel's extreme Left wants to discredit Masada, in order to advance its contention there's nothing good in the Jewish past. This isn't about archaeology; this about the pursuit of an ideological agenda. The Israeli critics of the Yigal Yadin just don't want to admit they have one.

(Denny Crane: "Every one should carry a gun strapped to their waist. We need more - not less guns.")

11 posted on 06/12/2006 11:16:39 AM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: robowombat

Minor differences with completely plausible explanations. My guess is the real underlying purpose is to discredit Josephus because he substantiates Jesus.


12 posted on 06/12/2006 11:26:58 AM PDT by Raycpa
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To: robowombat

How is mass suicide heroic?


15 posted on 06/12/2006 11:37:59 AM PDT by rabidralph
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To: dennisw; Cachelot; Nix 2; veronica; Catspaw; knighthawk; Alouette; Optimist; weikel; Lent; GregB; ..
If you'd like to be on this middle east/political ping list, please FR mail me.

Articles on Israel can also be found by clicking on the Topic or Keyword Israel.

..................

I thought it was established that there were only palestinians there in those days.

16 posted on 06/12/2006 11:40:29 AM PDT by SJackson (The Pilgrims—Doing the jobs Native Americans wouldn’t do!)
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To: robowombat
small daggers concealed under their cloaks with which they stabbed their opponents - almost exclusively fellow Jews who they perceived as too moderate or openly sympathetic to Roman rule.

The Middle East, eh? Plus ca change . . .

26 posted on 06/12/2006 12:48:06 PM PDT by jordan8
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To: robowombat

Gee, with skeptical accounts like this, it gets to be pretty easy to imagine how the NYT would have covered the story, had they been there....


28 posted on 06/12/2006 12:54:42 PM PDT by Wiseghy ("You want to break this army? Then break your word to it.")
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To: robowombat

There is a moderately entertaining novel by author Kathy Reichs, "Cross Bones," about some of the archaeological discoveries at Masada. Unfortunately she also throws in some "Da Vinci Code" conspiracy crap but other than that is a pretty good read.


39 posted on 06/12/2006 4:07:13 PM PDT by Alouette (Psalms of the Day: 79-82)
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To: robowombat

The traditional Jewish history of Masada is not 'romantic'. I may be unaware of what the socialist establishment of Israel has been teaching about Masada though.

The3 traditional telling of the Masada can be found at

http://www.aish.com/literacy/jewishhistory/Crash_Course_in_Jewish_History_Part_35_-_Destruction_of_the_Temple.asp

but one might start at

http://www.aish.com/literacy/jewishhistory/Crash_Course_in_Jewish_History_Part_33_-_The_Great_Revolt.asp

where the 'Zealots' in question are described:

"The Zealots. They were comprised of several different groups of nationalistic extremists. They were incensed at the Roman presence and were angry with other Jews whom they saw as actively or tacitly cooperating with the Romans."

"The Sicarii (meaning "dagger.") This was the criminal element often masquerading under the guise of nationalism. They sided with the Zealots."


41 posted on 06/12/2006 4:13:48 PM PDT by hlmencken3 (Originalist on the the 'general welfare' clause? No? NOT an originalist!)
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To: robowombat

Looks like the ramp WAS built on a natural feature that would make it much easier (and faster) to build.

51 posted on 06/12/2006 5:11:25 PM PDT by Mr Rogers
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To: Alouette; blam; FairOpinion; StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; 24Karet; 3AngelaD; ...
Thanks Alouette.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list. Thanks.
Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on or off the
"Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list or GGG weekly digest
-- Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
Gods, Graves, Glyphs (alpha order)

52 posted on 06/12/2006 5:19:41 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (All Moslems everywhere advocate murder, including mass murder, and they do it all the time.)
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A few years back the ramp was shown to be mostly a natural formation, which explains why its remains seem to persist. The Romans did build a structure on top of the natural formation.


53 posted on 06/12/2006 5:21:50 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (All Moslems everywhere advocate murder, including mass murder, and they do it all the time.)
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probably dead links, I didn't check:
Masada Ramp Was Not a Roman Engineering Miracle
by Dan Gill
Biblical Archaeology Review
We cannot use Josephus's description to reconstruct the layout and dimensions of the ramp. First, the heights given by him for the ramp (200 cubits, or 300 feet), the stone platform at the top of the ramp (50 cubits, or 75 feet) and the siege tower (60 cubits, or 90 feet) are wrong. Josephus's figures add up to 310 cubits (465 feet), while the actual difference in height between the top of Masada's defensive wall and the base of the spur is only 315 feet. Also, at the top of the spur there is not enough room for a 75-foot-wide platform, as Josephus claims, and no remains of large masonry blocks, of which the platform was allegedly built, can be found nearby. It is more reasonable to assume, as already suggested by Lammerer, that the installations on the spur included only a ramp and a tower, without a stone platform.
Masada wheel may be from Roman tower
by Arieh O'Sullivan
Jerusalem Post
Archeologists at Masada have uncovered a solid wooden wheel dating from the Great Jewish Revolt exactly at the spot where Roman war machines broke through nearly 2,000 years ago. Led by Hebrew University archeologist Prof. Ehud Netzer, the team at first uncovered Byzantine ruins. While officials were hesitant to say if the find was part of the ironclad Roman siege tower rolled up a ramp to breach the fortress wall, the discovery raised excitement among archeologists and park officials, who see it as rare piece of solid evidence that further confirms the story of the ancient mountaintop fortress. According to the historian Josephus, the Romans built a gigantic assault ramp up the side of the mountain. On top of this a siege tower, covered in iron, was erected from which the Romans planned to attack the Jews holding out on the mountaintop.

60 posted on 06/12/2006 11:29:08 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (All Moslems everywhere advocate murder, including mass murder, and they do it all the time.)
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