Posted on 06/10/2006 9:45:53 PM PDT by churchillbuff
Despite lifelong beliefs that have been ingrained in my faith since childhood, I have to admit that like almost everyone else I have from time to time wondered if my existence will simply come to an end on the day I draw my last breath.
There is, after all, no way to prove one way or the other that human life continues in another realm after the body ceases to function. Nobody has come back to testify about it, with one notable exception of course, and those who reject his divinity also tend to doubt what he had to say about life after death. And the late Madalyn Murray O’Hair, the infamous atheist, hasn’t weighed in on the subject lately either.
Some would insist such doubts are implanted by the devil himself. Others counter there is no scientific basis for belief in a hereafter in the first place.
But just about every time I entertain such doubts, something comes along to reinforce my long-held belief in the hereafter. It’s often the experience of a dying saint getting their first glimpse, as an old gospel song puts it, of what’s over on the other side.
I’m told the Rev. Dr. Hollis Pistole appeared to have one such experience at his passing a little over a month ago. According to the story, Dr. Pistole, after a long battle with debilitating illness, raised up and put his arms out just before he drew his last breath. Apparently he received that glimpse of what awaited him.
My wife’s father had a similar experience, opening his eyes and reaching heavenward just before his passing.
I also recently went over my mom’s notes made at the time of my dad’s death more than half a century ago. “Under me? Under me? Thank you, Jesus,” he said.
A whole category of what have been termed near-death experiences have been catalogued by those looking for insight into what happens at the end of life. A common phenomenon is a light-at-the-end-of-a-tunnel vision. Many claim to have seen friends or relatives but were unable to reunite with them when they were suddenly jerked back into life.
My Uncle Melvin had such an experience, claiming to have seen his brother and another loved one at the time he was suffering a severe heart attack from which he recovered.
It is impossible to figure out the working of the subconscious, thus rendering any attempt at concrete conclusions problematic. Are any or all of these phenomena merely the gyrations of an active brain or might they be an indication of a link between this world and one to come?
Belief in life after death has been part of human experience as long as mankind has pondered its existence. It has been reinforced by the most sacred writings of most of the world’s major religions, including Christianity, which bases its entire concept on the idea of God personally demonstrating life after physical death through the manifestation we call Jesus.
In this life, of course, our existence is tied to our physical body. But to define human life according to our physical limitations is an obvious understatement of our role in the universe. Human interaction is limited by our physical senses. But the true self that has developed over the course of our lifetimes would seem to go far beyond the senses.
And certainly there can be no doubt that the rationality of human beings and their capability to build on their life experiences place them in a category entirely separate from other living creatures.
Is there life after death? The question defies physical proof, to be sure. But there would seem to be glimpses enough into the future to show that our existence has only just begun.
And anyway, by preparing for eternity, I think I’m building a pretty good life here as well.
Jim Bailey’s column appears on Sunday. He can be reached by e-mail at jameshenrybailey@earthlink.net.
This is the 3rd time I have attempted to respond to you and each time when I go to another screen for info, I lose my pending comment post and I'm getting tired of it.
Anyway, I can't discuss these issues with you as I have never researched them. I refer such questions to John Clayton, the science teacher who as an atheist tried to prove the Bible inconsistent with science. And, he became a believer and has spent 30 years sharing his findings with others. Website is http://www.doesgodexist.org/.
But some points......
1 - as we know God can use earth as He chooses. We have the Old Testament days and the New Testament era. There could be many earlier undocumented periods such as the prehistoric ages, etc. It does not matter as regards our lives - it only matters to those that have to delve into the science.
2 - think you misunderstood my statement on eternal life. I was not saying eternal life was given after death. I was saying that earth is not heaven. We live on earth and the eternal life will not be on earth but somewhere else.
When we accept Jesus as the Son of God, repent of our prior sins and we are baptised for the remission of those sins, we are then a part of Jesus church and follow him through our days on earth. Jesus pays the price for man's sins and intercedes for us with God. We are under his umbrella. Through the death of Jesus we become cleansed enough to dwell with God in heaven. Otherwise, we could never be perfect enough to be in God's presence.
The eternal life is after death as each man will die. I do not agree that the Garden of Eden was set up for eternal life here on earth. I have never seen that indicated in the teachings. I'm not saying you are wrong - just I don't readily accept that premise.
Whatever, we are here in this life now. This life does have death and the living food chain for all animal life.
One other point....
The Bible does not give all information to us that would satisfy the scientific minds among us. Which, is probably why scientists often reject biblical teachings.
But - what was the purpose of the Bible? It was to give man instruction on God's plan for his life. It gave history so that we can learn the nature of God and his teachings. It shows us the love for his people, how they continually rejected him for other gods, his rejection of them and then his continual forgiveness and goodness to them.
So, if God's purpose was to give man instruction, it had to be as simple as possible so that all men could learn enough from it to be saved. A scientific document would not serve to save man, just to inform man. We are given what we need for salvation.
One interesting thing. A man in Africa got ahold of a Bible and read it. He showed up one day at a hospital, church or something asking to be baptised because he understood from his study that that was what God required for him to do. So, that man, all by himself without help followed God's plan and became a member of Christ's church, and will have eternal life.
He did not require answers to all creation's mysteries, he did not quibble or negotiate with God, he followed the instructions as a child would do. And, he was saved and is a Christian.
We should all do such first and then spend our years investigating all the questions we want God to answer someday.
Thank you for your comments and wish I could delve into those things with you - but, I am not scientific enough and am not a biblical scholar.
None of the above. Just give her a straight answer on your personal understanding of what Scripture says about the eternal fate of her Hindu grandparents. There really aren't that many alternatives.
Just what is the purpose of getting into those judgements? To give her a pompous, protective reason to reject any different teaching from God? To make her choose between the religion of her grandparents and her religion? To make it harder for her to grow to know the Lord and His direction?
Why not just answer her simple question, rather than trying to rationalize why you won't answer it? Is that so hard?
Keep it simple.
I'm all for that! You can't get simpler than "yes" or "no"!
I'm sorry, but that's bull puckey. If my dead father suddenly showed up in my living room, I'm pretty sure I'd listen to what he had to say.
You handle it your way, I'll handle it mine.
And, I am not in the business of judging prior lives. That is for God who CAN judge the totality of the person as man cannot.
We have enough to do with trying to live our current lives.
Wish you would spend the same amount of concern on what God does want people to do.
I tend to think you latch onto questions like this in order to throw up obstacles to others believing since you do not wish to draw people to God but to turn them away from God. That justifies your decision to not accept God in your mind.
Or, it is a cruel objective to hurt the one seeking answers to honest questions. You want to make them know that if they believe, they have to condemn their dead loved ones first. Ask yourself why you so want them to get this judgement. Couldn't each and every one of us have to face the same question about our dead relatives?
The way I handle it in my life? I pray to God to judge them mercifully, I take up for them. As we give mercy to others, we receive mercy. That is all I can do.
We hear stories of people 'reaching up' and 'seeing loved ones' or Jesus, which reaffirms for some that there is a heaven. So why do we not also hear of the 1/3 who, upon deaths door, scream in terror as they get a glimpse of the hell that awaits them?
Would YOU admit that, having died and briefly visited hell, that that was where you are going LATER? Or a warning : shape up and fly right, this is where you go if you don't...
I just did a google search for the Hawking quote and couldn't find it. There's a lot about Hawking, the Pope, Galileo and the Big Bang and even on the 10 to the minus 43rd second, but no exact quote. Do you have a source for it? Thanks.
Check out post # 225.
Your car may die only once, ie, be totaled, but that doesn't mean you can't get a new car.
Jesus knew of returning into new embodiments:
17:10 And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?
17:11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.
17:12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
17:13 Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist. (KJV)
I don't think my Grandma would be familiar with it. But, that's the best explanation so far.
Additionally, I never played this song for her while she was living. But, I know the tune and got fairly proficient at playing it later in life.
HMMM...
Thanks!
Great post!
Well, I tend to think you dodge questions like this because it puts your beliefs in a bad light, and you don't want to go on record as supporting its unpleasant teachings. So we both have our opinions about the other's motives.
That justifies your decision to not accept God in your mind.
I'd like you to back up your claim that I don't accept God. And please provide relevant quotes to back up your claim.
Or, it is a cruel objective to hurt the one seeking answers to honest questions.
Strange that telling someone the whole truth, as you best understand it, is considered cruel.
You want to make them know that if they believe, they have to condemn their dead loved ones first.
Beliefs about what happens after death have nothing to do with what actually does happen, AFAIK.
Ask yourself why you so want them to get this judgement.
As I said earlier, I believe in truth in packaging, in plain English. I think it's dishonest not to tell the whole truth to the best of your ability.
Couldn't each and every one of us have to face the same question about our dead relatives?
Of course. Isn't one of the things you look forward to is being reunited with deceased loved ones? Wouldn't it trouble you if you found out that someone you loved very much is suffering a horrible fate beyond your worst nightmares?
Reaching toward the ceiling at the time of death is something that two of our family members also did. But, stranger than that is this story:
The lady who lives in my grandparents old farm home, but had never met or saw photos of my grandparents, told me this story. One night she was awakened and saw a man and a black-and-white spotted dog walking around her bedroom. The man was somewhat short, and bald. He wore a hunting type shirt. He seemed content and peaceful. The dog followed him. He disappeared through a doorway leading to the stairway to the main floor. But, the woman was confused as there is no doorway where he walked as the doorway to the stairs was around a corner. The man she described matched by grandpa to a "T" and his dog, a German Shorthair. The doorway he walked through to the stairway was in fact there when he lived in that home. It had subsequently been changed in remodeling another family that owned the home after my grandpa's death. My grandpa, an avid outdoorsman, usually wore a hunting-type shirt. How odd is this?
Stay jubilant!
Best -- Dave
The figure I saw was that only 4% of those who reported NDE's had hellish experiences. The 1/3 figure came from "somewhere", according to FReeper timer. See link to earlier post in this thread for citations--
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1647100/posts?page=53#53
" . . . yet it would be days to come before family members received the news by mail that "yes" that person had died & had died before Aunt Jane died.. ."
Up here in my habitat we always believed you'd hear beautiful singing, like angels, or a bird would try to fly into a house through a window.
If you dream of a birth somebody will die, and if you dream of a death somebody in the family will have a baby.
But hearing the beautiful music is something I believe, because I have heard it.
It is very interesting. I was talking about different doctrines though.
No problem at all. :-)
Davis for People magazine Keith Olbermann Anchor, 'Countdown'
There is now an account of the last moments of Ronald Reagan. In an essay, collected and published in next week‘s edition of “People” magazine, his daughter Patti Davis recounts, in detail, her father‘s death. KEITH OLBERMANN, HOST: This is somewhat atypical, I would suggest, the account of the passing of the leading public figure by a family member.
PATRICK ROGERS, SENIOR EDITOR, PEOPLE MAGAZINE: Well, Patti told us that the family knew that the end was coming ...... Finally on Saturday afternoon, they knew that the time had come. Just after 1 p.m., as Nancy Reagan held his hand, Ronald Reagan opened his eyes, he hadn‘t opened them in five days, opened them and looked right at his wife of 52 years. Then he closed his eyes and that was his last breath. OLBERMANN: The exact quote from Ms, Davis, was “At the last moment when his breathing told us this was it, he opened his eyes and looked straight at my mother. Eyes that hadn‘t opened for days, did. And they weren‘t chalky or vague. They were clear, and blue, and full of love. If a death can be lovely, his was.” ROGERS: ... There was relief and there was release for this family. And also, these are people of faith, there‘s a certainty, on their part, that President Reagan, his last earthly look is at his wife, his next look is at the face of God. This is what Michael Reagan told us. So, there‘s consolation there. ...
Place marker ... hoping for more personal accounts
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