Posted on 06/06/2006 10:11:12 PM PDT by Panerai
Gov. Mitt Romney says he would be willing to talk about his Mormon religion in broad terms should he run for president but would shy away from debating specific beliefs.
"I think initially some people would say, `Gosh, I don't know much about your faith. Tell me about it.' And I'd probably outline the fundamentals: I'm a religious person, I believe that Jesus Christ is my savior," Romney said during an appearance on PBS's "The Charlie Rose Show." "But then as you get into the details of doctrines, I'd probably say, 'Look, time out.'"
Among other things, Mormons believed in polygamy until 1890 and banned blacks from the priesthood until 1978. They also maintain temples open only to members where rites such as vicarious baptisms for the dead are performed.
Romney also reiterated on the show, which aired Monday, that he believes the question of whether to outlaw abortion should be left up to individual states. It was a nuanced view that allows him to maintain his anti-abortion views while leaving intact Roe v. Wade, the 1973 Supreme Court ruling allowing abortion.
(Excerpt) Read more at boston.com ...
1 Corinthians 1:11
Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.
Oops, typo. 1 Corinthians 11:11, not 1:11.
Not likely, "if any"
Its been my experience that Mormons retreat when comfronted with the Truth
One reason is that many Mormons are ignornant of the doctrine and many teachings of the Mormon church themselves and just parrot what they have been told instead of researching themselves
And to question or even to think of leaving the Mormon church is to risk your family, spouse, children, friends as you could easily find your selve abandoned by all
And its also very difficult to formally leave the "church"
However here is a "HOW TO LEAVE THE MORMON CHURCH"
It is important for exiting Mormons to break connection with the Church. It is necessary for several reasons.
First, unless a person actually resigns, the Mormon Church will carry his name on its membership roll forever. Even if they haven’t been to church for thirty years. Exiting Mormons who remove their names bring the Church growth numbers closer to the truth. This is important because many people investigating Mormonism are unduly impressed by the "numbers."
Second, by resigning membership in the Church, the exiting Mormon is delivering an important message to others. The action says, "I am not a Mormon, and I think something is wrong with Mormonism." I wonder how many bishops are amazed at the letters requesting excommunication that cross their desks.
Third, I think an important spiritual connection is broken when one breaks with the Mormon Church. A Mormon convert voluntarily places himself under Mormon authority and, hence, the spirit of Mormonism. Resigning breaks the spiritual connection. I know many people who have had a very real emotional release after verbally renouncing, then formally resigning from the Mormon Church.
Resigning can be accomplished by mail. You do not have to attend what is known as "excommunication court." But, the letter needs to be firm, and it needs to be mailed to three people:
1. The bishop of the Mormon Ward the Latter-day Saint currently resides in. If the bishop says he doesn’t have those records, insist that he get them.
2. The Stake President of the Stake of residence.
3. Finally, the President of the Mormon Church. Be sure that each copy of the letter lists all the others receiving copies. The President of the Church can be reached in care of The Church Office Building, Salt Lake City, Utah.
The resignation letter must be strong. But it should be your own words. Here is a sample letter:
Dear Bishop (Stake President, President):
This letter is to inform you that I wish to resign from the Church, and request that my name be stricken from the records of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
I have made this decision with full understanding. I am operating within the constitutional religious freedom guaranteed a citizen of the United States.
I insist that the Church record show that the only reason for terminating membership is my request of resignation. And I request a letter to that effect be sent to me. I will not hesitate to take immediate legal action against you personally, and the Church corporately, if anything is done to libel my name or cause me any loss of reputation. I further insist that you honor my request in a timely manner.
Copies of this letter have been sent to the bishop of the ward within whose boundaries I reside, the President of the Stake, and the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
I take this action because I’m fully persuaded that the Mormon Church is in great error, teaches false doctrine, and greatly displeases God.
I believe that Joseph Smith was a false prophet. He failed every major test as to the validity of his office according to Deuteronomy 18:20-22 and Galatians 1:8. Further, I do not have confidence in any of the successive prophets of the Church since Smith’s time.
I do not think the gospel has been "restored" because I don’t think it was "lost from the earth." Jesus said the gates of hell would never prevail against His Church, and I don’t think they ever did.
I am convinced the Book of Mormon is not of divine origin, but a text Smith copied from the King James Bible and secular writings as a fraud to get financial gain and power over the lives of others.
I find the "Law of Eternal Progression" in direct conflict with Isaiah chapters 43-46, Deuteronomy 6:4, and Job chapters 38–42.
I have many other doctrinal differences with the Church. I do not believe in baptism for the dead, the authority of the Mormon priesthood, or the three levels of heaven.
Since I have become born again through faith in Christ and that alone, I have become aware that all Mormon doctrine is tainted with error.
I have come to this decision after prayer, and it is absolutely final. Any attempt to contact me to change my thinking, by Home Teachers, Visiting Teachers, Missionaries, or other representatives of the LDS Church, I would consider an invasion of my privacy.
Since I have done nothing wrong, I will participate in no Church court or trial.
I have obtained great peace of mind since coming to a knowledge of my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. I have assurance that my salvation is not dependent upon my own futile attempts at righteousness, but on Christ. He is my salvation.
I would personally encourage you to examine again the first eight chapters of the book of Romans, the book of Galatians, and the second chapter of the book of Ephesians. I pray for your salvation,
Sincerely, (Signature)
I suggest you re-read Doctrine and Covenants section #132:
http://scriptures.lds.org/dc/132
1 VERILY, thus saith the Lord unto you my servant Joseph, that inasmuch as you have inquired of my hand to know and understand wherein I, the Lord, justified my servants Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as also Moses, David and Solomon, my servants, as touching the principle and doctrine of their having many awives• and bconcubines•—
2 Behold, and lo, I am the Lord thy God, and will answer thee as touching this matter.
3 Therefore, aprepare• thy heart to receive and bobey the instructions which I am about to give unto you; for all those who have this law revealed unto them must obey the same.
4 For behold, I reveal unto you a new and an everlasting acovenant; and if ye abide not that covenant, then are ye bdamned•; for no one can creject• this covenant and be permitted to enter into my glory.
.....
I didn't say it. Jesus did:
And certain of the Sadducees came, those speaking against a resurrection, that it was not to be. And they asked Him, saying, Teacher, Moses wrote to us, If anyone's brother dies, having a wife, and if he dies without children, his brother should take his wife and raise up seed to his brother. Therefore there were seven brothers. And the first took a wife and died without children. And the second took her as a wife, and he died childless. And the third took her. And likewise the seven left no children and died. Last of all the woman also died. Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be? For the seven had her as a wife. And answering, Jesus said to them, The sons of this world marry and are given in marriage, **but they who shall be counted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage.** Nor can they die any more, for they are equal to the angels, and are the sons of God, being the sons of the resurrection.
(Luk 20:27-36 MKJV)
Are you one?
34And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage:
35But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:
36Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.
Luke 20 (King James Version)
Have you read anything posted on this thread? Or just skimmed past anything that might snap you into reality?
OF COURSE it wasn't widely practiced at that point, because Joseph Smith was trying to keep a lid on it! LOL At the very same time he WAS doing it, he was having the church print official denouncements of polygamy. And this guy was a "prophet"??? Puh-leeeze! LOL
AND QUIT YELLING TO ME!!
My apologies. It's just gets frustrating when people continue to spout nonsense. Any Mormon who spews the line about "lack of men", etc. should be ashamed of themselves. All they have to do is read their own history, written by their own leaders. Is that too much to ask of them? Good grief!
From Doctrine and Covenants Section 132:20 and 21
20 Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from aeverlasting• to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be bgods•, because they have call• power, and the angels are subject unto them.
21 Verily, verily, I say unto you, except ye abide my alaw ye cannot attain to this glory.
I have read it many times. You do not understand it.
The covenant of marriage, in this case plural marriage, is "new and everlasting", not the practice of plural marriage. In other words, those plural marriages performed under that command were to be an eternal covenant. The section does not say that practice of plural marriage would be "everlasting".
Do you understand the distinction?
A Methodist? Yes I am
D&C section 132
...15 Therefore, if a aman marry him a wife in the world, and he marry her not by me nor by my word, and he covenant with her so long as he is in the world and she with him, their covenant and marriage are not of force when they are dead, and when they are out of the world; therefore, they are not bound by any law when they are out of the world.
16 Therefore, when they are out of the world they neither marry nor are given in amarriage•; but are appointed angels in bheaven•, which angels are ministering cservants, to minister for those who are worthy of a far more, and an exceeding, and an eternal weight of glory.
17 For these angels did not abide my law; therefore, they cannot be enlarged, but remain separately and singly, without exaltation, in their saved condition, to all eternity; and from henceforth are not gods, but are aangels• of God forever and ever.
18 And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife, and make a covenant with her for time and for all eternity, if that acovenant• is not by me or by my word, which is my law, and is not sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, through him whom I have anointed and appointed unto this power, then it is not valid neither of force when they are out of the world, because they are not joined by me, saith the Lord, neither by my word; when they are out of the world it cannot be received there, because the angels and the gods are appointed there, by whom they cannot pass; they cannot, therefore, inherit my glory; for my house is a house of order, saith the Lord God....
LOL...I meant a Mormon. You are very good at spewing the "official" line....
...there were more women than men ...LOL
http://www.i4m.com/think/polygamy/utah_census.htm
Utah population:
1850 total 11,380 male 6,046 female 5,334
1860 total 40,273 male 20,255 female 20,018
1870 total 86,786 male 44,121 female 42,665
1880 total 143,963 male 74,509 female 68,454
1890 total 210,779 male 111,975 female 98,804
1800 total 276,749 male 141,687 female 135,062
And that is exactly correct. Once they "obtain that world", they will not be courting and marrying someone, since that time has passed. The marriages will have been solemnized and established before then.
Notice the verse does not say what you imply: "they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, are not married" In reality, the scripture uses the verb "marry". That word refers to the action of getting married, not to the state of being married.
If we are to believe your interpretation, the ultimate goal of eternity is a massive group divorce. That sure doesn't jive with what I understand of happiness and the importance of the family.
You need to read the context. The question is "Which man is her husband?". Jesus responds "There is no marriage in Heaven so none of them are her husband". Marriage is an earthly institution. When we get to Heaven, no one will be subject to anyone but God ie "Wives submit your Husband as to the Lord".
Some scholars believe the ultimate question was "Who will have sex with her?" and the answer was "There is no sex in Heaven".
Oh, so the godhood thing was the "important part"?... "Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from aeverlasting• to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be bgods•, because they have call• power, and the angels are subject unto them."
And what if a wife didn't like that "unimportant" polygamy part?...
"And again, verily, verily, I say unto you, if any man have a wife, who holds the keys of this power, and he teaches unto her the law of my priesthood, as pertaining to these things, then shall she believe and administer unto him, or she shall be destroyed, saith the Lord your God; for I will destroy her; for I will magnify my name upon all those who receive and abide in my law."
So God is going to destroy a woman who didn't believe in the "unimportant" plural wives thing?
After 1852, when the Mormon Church was openly practicing polygamy, the leaders of the church were declaring that it was absolutely essential for exaltation. Joseph F. Smith, who served as the 6th president of the church, made this emphatic declaration concerning the importance of polygamy:
"Some people have supposed that the doctrine of plural marriage was a sort of superfluity, or non-essential to the salvation of mankind. In other words, some of the Saints have said, and believe that a man with one wife, sealed to him by the authority of the Priesthood for time and eternity, will receive an exaltation as great and glorious, if he is faithful, as he possibly could with more than one. I want here to enter my protest against this idea, for I know it is false... Therefore, whoever has imagined that he could obtain the fullness of the blessings pertaining to this celestial law, by complying with only a portion of its conditions, has deceived himself. He cannot do it. When that principle was revealed to the Prophet Joseph Smith,... he did not falter, although it was not until an angel of God, with a drawn sword, stood before him and commanded that he should enter into the practice of that principle, or he should be utterly destroyed, or rejected....
"If then, this principle was of such great importance that the Prophet himself was threatened with destruction,... it is useless to tell me that there is no blessing attached to obedience to the law, or that a man with only one wife can obtain as great a reward, glory or kingdom as he can with more than one,...
"I understand the law of celestial marriage to mean that every man in this Church, who has the ability to obey and practice it in righteousness and will not, shall be damned, I say I understand it to mean this and nothing less, and I testify in the name of Jesus that it does mean that." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 20, p. 28-31)
In 1891 the First Presidency and Apostles of the Mormon Church made the following statement in a petition to the President of the United States: "We formerly taught to our people that polygamy or celestial marriage as commanded by God through Joseph Smith was right; that it was a necessity to man's highest exaltation in the life to come." (Reed Smoot Case, vol. 1, page 18)
Brigham Young made this uncompromising statement on August 19, 1866:
"The only men who become Gods, even the Sons of God, are those who enter into polygamy." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 11, page 269)
Do you need any more info on this "unimportant" part?
Well, you have an interesting "take" on the commandment since the who premise of the revelation was this quote
"Verily, thus saith the Lord unto you my servant Joseph, that inasmuch as you have inquired of my hand to know and understand wherein I, the Lord, justified my servants Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as also Moses, David and Solomon, my servants, as touching the principle and doctrine of their having many wives and concubines—"
The commandment was given BECAUSE Joseph inquired of God ABOUT POLYGAMY not marriage for eternity. But you view it through the eyes of the new and improved socially acceptable Mormon doctrine I suppose.
Q: Why is it that men can have more than one wife in eternity, yet women will have only one man?
Answer: Because the Church still teaches and approves of polygamy in the afterlife.
Q: Why??
Answer: Because it is an eternal commandment, and the only reason it is NOT practiced at this time here on earth is because it is against the law.
That a ludicious interpretation of the Scripture I quoted!
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