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Can't Complete High School? Head Straight for College
New York Times ^
| May 30, 2006
| Karen Arenson
Posted on 05/30/2006 7:02:57 AM PDT by gallaxyglue
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To: RipSawyer
"When they are sent out with no education they are liable to be ignorant enough to vote Democrat."Which is why the NEA is against education.
81
posted on
05/30/2006 10:23:32 AM PDT
by
Designer
(Just a nit-pick'n and chagrin'n)
To: cinives
yes we did. see my post #39.
82
posted on
05/30/2006 10:24:31 AM PDT
by
Zeppelin
(Texas Longhorns === National Champions)
To: Phlap
"This is old news. And I do mean old."You have certainly set the bar high.
My kid skipped his last semester at HS and earned a Master's degree, and makes more money that I. Both my kids have Master's degrees and both make more money than I.
Hooray!
83
posted on
05/30/2006 10:29:49 AM PDT
by
Designer
(Just a nit-pick'n and chagrin'n)
To: nuke rocketeer
"I'm sure engineers are required to take some real waste-of-time courses to get their degree."Same for us Architects, too. I argued aginst having to take the BS courses to no avail.
84
posted on
05/30/2006 10:32:01 AM PDT
by
Designer
(Just a nit-pick'n and chagrin'n)
To: gallaxyglue
Why not?.. The continuing re-education of America College students into stone socialists is not complete at the High School level..
"How do you tell a Socialist:- It's someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an Anti-Socialist someone who understands Marx and Lenin" -Ronald Reagan
NOTE: American(and world) academia requires a cursory attention to Marx, but denies a proper understanding of Marx.. Lenin.. Hegel.. Stalin.. Mao.. And IT WORKS.. The American college student has no idea that the Social Security Act is in fact rock hard Socialism completely.. Not LIKE socialism, IT IS PURE SOCIALISM.. But worse they have NO IDEA that socialism is Slavery by Givernment.. Pure slavery, indentured servitude..
85
posted on
05/30/2006 10:35:39 AM PDT
by
hosepipe
(CAUTION: This propaganda is laced with hyperbole..)
To: cinives
I won't disagree with any of that. But our "educational" institutions are far from what the picture that you paint is. I have a technical (engineering) degree and two business degrees, and I can honestly say that I've
never taken a liberal arts course that has even remotely challenged my critical thinking. As well, economics I can understand and don't consider to be a liberal arts course as it isn't. But I can see certain liberal arts courses such as "organizational behavior," often taught in business departments, to be valuable. Those clearly aren't what
I was referring to however. But let me ask you, contrasted with the truly analytical courses that you've taken and have benefitted from either directly or indirectly, what percentage of the material that you learned in liberal arts coursework would you say actually applies to your work today?
I can quite honestly say, speaking for myself, that most of what I've learned in that way has simply come from OJT, self-education, post graduate/professional career enhancement type of stuff, or simply online learning. Some was also motivational stuff such as Stephen Covey, Anthony Robbins, etc., etc. I don't buy into any particular overall philosophy there, but I dare say that a couple of hours of that type of stuff or professional seminars, are worth weeks, or semesters even, worth of time spent in liberal arts classroom/study.
I.e., based on my experiences, including myself, relatives, friends, others, etc., the "bang for the buck" for engineering, business, or other specifically disciplined coursework in areas of specific learning by far and away exceed that of liberal arts efficiencies in time-v.-benefit!
As well, I couldn't read quickly or write well at all throughout high school and even into college. But today I do it professionally and am haled for it in my genre.
I've taken my analytical abilities and put them to pen in ways that people understand. I know many people with poor-to-fair literary skills in HS or college that learned later on in life.
On the flip side, I rarely see and know precious few people that had great reading/writing skills that developed their critical thinking skills to extents where they are haled as great thinkers, good polemicists, etc. In fact, the field of players in liberalism should be a great guide and testimony to that.
Many write very well but have the analytical capacities of a dead giraffe. Lawyers are full of that. Ergo, so are our politicians. They can talk their way out of anything, or into anything for that matter, but when one parses their rantings, they are found wanting.
86
posted on
05/30/2006 10:36:56 AM PDT
by
Fruitbat
To: applpie
The internet and the public library--not to mention bookstores--have all the info I need on any subject. Much cheaper, too. The degree is just a piece of paper. If people need/want it, that's their problem. I'm extremely grateful to have not wasted my time or money on it.
87
posted on
05/30/2006 10:46:36 AM PDT
by
Huck
(Hey look, I'm still here.)
To: gallaxyglue
I have some experience with this topic as my oldest son began college this past year with just, barely, a 9th grade education.
He left school under pressure because he didn't fit in to what the school considered their "norm." (He isn't retarded nor is he a genius.) He was repeatedly harassed about numerous trivial things until he left. Can't tell you the number of times I left work because the school said he wasn't there only to find him at school when I arrived. The school discipline officer threatened to suspend my son because a girlfriend had drawn mushrooms on a notebook. Claimed it was a violation of the school's drug policy, except he couldn't show me anywhere where that particular policy was published.
After a year or two he got his GED, passed with flying colors, in fact.
After about seven years he enrolled in college. He "tested out" to avoid remedial classes and to get college credit for what he took.
To make a very long story shorter, he has an "A" average, taking a full load of classes in nursing (think of all those math and science courses) while working full-time.
So, are we better off because a student got a shot at higher education, even though washing out in the NEA's high school?
Yeah, I think so.
Sam Pierce
88
posted on
05/30/2006 11:04:50 AM PDT
by
cpa4you
(CPA4YOU)
To: Fruitbat
You picked out a salient point. None of my courses (other than math-related) offered skills (other than writing and analysis) that were directly relevant, and even those skills were probably mine before college.
All of my day-to-day work consists of skills which I taught myself either via reading or the more usual OJT.
However, unlike high school whch teaches dependency on external rewards, I realized in college that no one but me cared about my progress and if I wanted anything, I'd better get my own butt in gear. No one was going to hold my hand and help me get it unless I showed initiative and used the resources available and even in many cases to find my own resources when none were offered.
89
posted on
05/30/2006 11:13:27 AM PDT
by
cinives
(On some planets what I do is considered normal.)
To: Zeppelin
She's an anatomical illustrator for medical mags and hospitals.
90
posted on
05/30/2006 11:41:10 AM PDT
by
metesky
("Brethren, leave us go amongst them." Rev. Capt. Samuel Johnston Clayton - Ward Bond- The Searchers)
To: gallaxyglue
An education used to mean something. Education always means something. Schooling, not so much.
91
posted on
05/30/2006 11:45:33 AM PDT
by
Aquinasfan
(When you find "Sola Scriptura" in the Bible, let me know)
To: gallaxyglue
The biggest difference between college and HS is that college is voluntary. HS for many is a prison sentence and they learn to hate "Education", because they are forced to learn things they no interest in or they have lousy teachers. College is the first opportunity to learn what, where and when they choose to and suddenly education is motivated by desire and not truant officers.
The beauty of American education is you can get an education when you are finally mature enough to see the benefits of it. Not everyone is ready for college when they are 18.
92
posted on
05/30/2006 12:02:48 PM PDT
by
Boiler Plate
(Mom always said why be difficult, when with just a little more effort you can be impossible.)
To: Fruitbat
I can tell you as someone that does and has hired, that w/o a college degree, no one would have been considered for most positions that we/I hired. Please explain this to me. Just about everyone here with a degree acknowledges that they could do their job without their degree, so why do corporations insist on degrees? Is it a pedigree? A guarantee of minimum skills?
93
posted on
05/30/2006 12:12:29 PM PDT
by
Aquinasfan
(When you find "Sola Scriptura" in the Bible, let me know)
To: Boiler Plate
94
posted on
05/30/2006 12:14:07 PM PDT
by
cyborg
(I just love that man.)
To: Zeppelin
Regarding Bill Gates, dont forget Michael Dell, who went to UT too! He was making more out of his dorm room selling spare computer parts than he could have made after graduation. Needless to say, he dropped out and is doing alright for himself. =P And add Steve Jobs to the list of college dropout CEOs. College schmollege.
95
posted on
05/30/2006 12:16:35 PM PDT
by
Aquinasfan
(When you find "Sola Scriptura" in the Bible, let me know)
To: Aquinasfan
hell, all five of the main guys involved with Microsoft and Apple.
now, I'm not anti-college, as I've noted in my other posts.
96
posted on
05/30/2006 12:18:58 PM PDT
by
Zeppelin
(Texas Longhorns === National Champions)
To: after dark
Good point, many colleges have certificate programs that prepare students for a specific job. Welding, truck driving, and mechanic programs come to mind; also programs for office clerical, preschool teaching, and non-medical care givers, and aides for elderly. We think of programs like this as trade school material, but many community colleges and even smaller University's are offering job specific education.
These programs are a blessing for students who may not have been able to pass some subjects required for a high school diploma, yet will be able to hold a decent job in a field that interests them after completion of this type of study.
97
posted on
05/30/2006 12:20:08 PM PDT
by
Tammy8
(Build a Real Border Fence, and secure the border!!!)
To: TruthShallSetYouFree
[[Anyone who uses the term, "I was like..." in place of "I said..." should not be allowed to go to college. In fact, they should not be allowed to go to any school.]]
How about if they say....."You see what I'm saying" six times in the same sentence? lol
98
posted on
05/30/2006 12:22:51 PM PDT
by
Buffettfan
(VIVA LA MIGRA! - LONG LIVE THE MINUTEMEN!)
To: Fruitbat
I've never taken a liberal arts course that has even remotely challenged my critical thinking. Try St. Thomas. Engineers like him because his style is formal, logical, profound and mercifully succinct, unlike the liberal arts crap that most people experience in college.
This is where "liberal arts" came from and where the term "scholasticism" originated. This is what liberal arts should be.
99
posted on
05/30/2006 12:24:00 PM PDT
by
Aquinasfan
(When you find "Sola Scriptura" in the Bible, let me know)
To: gallaxyglue
More liberal "we don't want to hurt their self steem" nonsense.
100
posted on
05/30/2006 12:24:21 PM PDT
by
Buffettfan
(VIVA LA MIGRA! - LONG LIVE THE MINUTEMEN!)
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