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Pay Gap: A Different Take (Government workers overpaid)
http://www.govexec.com/dailyfed/0506/051806pb.htm ^

Posted on 05/19/2006 4:25:10 PM PDT by lauriehelds

The pay gap between private and public sector employees seems to be a given. Just this week, 10 congressmen made their case for a higher 2007 civilian pay raise than President Bush has requested by citing a 30 percent private-public gap reported by the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

"The federal government may never be able to compete with the private sector, dollar for dollar, but we must ensure that we do not fall further behind in the battle for talent," Reps. Tom Davis, R-Va.; Jon Porter, R-Nev.; Steny Hoyer, D-Md.; Chris Van Hollen, D-Md., and others said in a letter to fellow members.

But a new paper from the libertarian Washington-based think tank the Cato Institute argues that the pay gap actually travels in the other direction. Pointedly titled "Federal Pay Outpaces Private-Sector Pay," the paper by Chris Edwards, the institute's director of tax policy studies, makes the case for freezing government salaries.

By bundling federal benefits -- including defined pensions, the Thrift Savings Plan and health care subsidies -- together with wages, Edwards calculated that the average federal worker earned $100,178 in 2004, compared to $51,876 in salary and benefits for the average private-sector worker. Those numbers were based on statistics from the Bureau of Economic Analysis.

"The federal civilian workforce has become an elite island of secure and high-paid workers, separated from the ocean of private-sector American workers who must compete in today's dynamic economy," Edwards wrote.

In an interview, Edwards said he is trying to stir the pot on an issue that has no real adversaries. Federal employee unions are so vocal on pay issues, and Washington-area congressmen, including Republicans like Davis, who chairs the Government Reform Committee, are loyal to the many federally employed voters in their districts, Edwards said.

He said he suspects the BLS studies that find such a marked pay gap, and which do not take benefits into account, are flawed.

"There are questions about how these comparisons are done," Edwards said. "If you, say, look at a government lawyer versus a private lawyer, or accountants, the responsibilities and the hours worked per week can be quite radically different."

Most compelling, he argued, is the quit rate for federal employees, which is quite low and suggests that workers are satisfied with their pay.

Edwards said in his paper that some academic studies have found government workers to be overpaid, but his citation is a 1985 study by Steven Venti at the National Bureau of Economic Research.

Why did he pull from a 20-year-old study? Because, he said, there has been so much agreement in recent years on the pay gap that no one has bothered to complete an updated independent analysis.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Government; News/Current Events
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To: lauriehelds

>>>You work 40 hours a week. Make up to $95k a year. Get up to six weeks vacation. All the federal holidays, a ton of sick days and personal days. Flexible schedules and telecommuting options as well where you can compress your 10 day pay period into 9 days so every other friday is a day off....

And they always seem to travel during the business day... never at night, never on personal time. I'm sure there's a few exceptions here and there.


281 posted on 05/20/2006 1:19:57 PM PDT by Hop A Long Cassidy
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To: muawiyah

LOL, go for it. My business uses FEDEX exclusively - they are reliable.


282 posted on 05/20/2006 1:23:42 PM PDT by patton (What the heck just happened, here?)
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To: patton
Sure are ~ and did you notice all those FedEx boxes in front of post offices?

That's because the USPS has SAFE locations, something you can't say for FEDEX or UPS Fur Shur!

283 posted on 05/20/2006 1:27:30 PM PDT by muawiyah (-)
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To: Darkwolf377
You would be classified a martyr for such a cause. I was definitely not thinking about doing it during rush hour. (That might make "normal" people mad.)
This pubic servant needs a lesson though! He definitely needs to stand out among his peers. If I lived in Boston I would post his pic on a website and spread the word for people to NOT give him CHANGE - because he hates CHANGE! They would be taking him away in a straight jacket because of all the change he would be getting.
284 posted on 05/20/2006 1:36:53 PM PDT by missnry (The truth will set you free!)
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To: muawiyah

So, the only reason that the USPS works, is because they are protected by federal cops?


285 posted on 05/20/2006 1:39:54 PM PDT by patton (What the heck just happened, here?)
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To: RFEngineer

Actually, I've said nothing about wanting more.
I'm quite happy with the situation as is.
I also didn't "grip" about the overtime, I stated it as a fact in response to your comment about govt employees not working enough hours.

But since you keep adding your own pathologies to every post made to you, I'll just write this off as a waste of time. You seem to be a twisted, unhappy person, not to put too fine a point on it.

Jealousy is an ugly emotion.






286 posted on 05/20/2006 1:50:35 PM PDT by bordergal
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To: muawiyah

"None of the companies you named are anywhere near a 15X improvement in productivity."

It's eminently clear to everyone here that you are a government hack who works for USPS, okay?

You cite a 15X productivity improvement.

So, the post office went from guys in eyeshades sorting letters by hand into wooden bins...to high-speed laser reader-sorters (developed in the PRIVATE SECTOR, and resisted by the postal union at first), and you cite that as YOUR productivity improvement?

That's like me saying, My grandfather used to have to feed his chicken and then wait 24 hours to get an egg, where as I can run to the store in 10 minutes and grab a whole dozen ...therefore my family's egg productivity has improved exponentially.

Get real.

You got it made.

Don't apologize or try to explain it.

Just gloat that most of your fellow Freepers are paying your way through life.


287 posted on 05/20/2006 1:57:08 PM PDT by John Robertson (Even if we disagree now, we may agree later. Or vice versa.)
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To: John Robertson

To be such a smart fellow I am amazed you've never bothered to check out any of the personal pages in FR.


288 posted on 05/20/2006 2:32:27 PM PDT by muawiyah (-)
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To: bordergal

"You seem to be a twisted, unhappy person, not to put too fine a point on it.

Jealousy is an ugly emotion. "

No, you, and many other people who think that gov't workers somehow are getting a raw deal don't have an argument. Nada. Your only argument seems to be that your husband has a government job that can be hard.

Here in the non-taxpayer supported real world that's a given. What is also a given here in the real world is that your compensation will rise and fall with your level of effort, skill, and competency (despite the yoke of high taxation to support gov't workers). This is another thing that you and other gov't types couldn't possibly understand to the level that everyone else does.

If it seems I am jealous of the high compensation of the typical gov't employee in comparison to their skill level and competency, so be it, but it doesn't change the fact that you haven't addressed the arguments posited in this thread - you haven't even registered an understanding of them.


289 posted on 05/20/2006 2:53:15 PM PDT by RFEngineer
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To: muawiyah

"To be such a smart fellow I am amazed you've never bothered to check out any of the personal pages in FR."

I sometimes even amaze myself...when my smartness runs way out ahead of my logic. Heh-heh. Okay, I was wrong. You hate the postal servie almost as much as I do.

But I was right about everything else, even if we haven't discussed it yet. Heh-heh.


290 posted on 05/20/2006 3:30:16 PM PDT by John Robertson (Even if we disagree now, we may agree later. Or vice versa.)
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To: John Robertson

You still didn't contribute a dime to my retirement though ~ unless you're the guy who foolishly sold that stock I've done so well with, in which case I have the keys to your vault in my hands.


291 posted on 05/20/2006 3:31:58 PM PDT by muawiyah (-)
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To: RFEngineer

Privatize the gubmint! Outsource to India!


292 posted on 05/20/2006 3:32:31 PM PDT by durasell (!)
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To: John Robertson
Oh, yeah, I don't exactly "hate" the postal service, but I think they really do need to change some of their standards concerning management hires.

Simply promoting those who show up best in a short-arm inspection is really not the way to run a business.

293 posted on 05/20/2006 3:33:33 PM PDT by muawiyah (-)
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To: RFEngineer

NO government employee on this thread said anything about getting a raw deal. You are having an entirely imaginary argument (which scares me if you really are an engineer).

As I stated before, my family is quite content with the pay and benefits that are provided under the current system.

The point being made was that there ARE many people in government who take their jobs seriously, who work hard, and who believe in the concept of public service. It's also not a giveaway. A GS 3 starts at 8.50 per hour (which is what you get working at Panda Express in my area), and it takes time, effort, and moving around to get a promotion. You work weekends, nights, 24 hour shifts, holidays, and also often work just part of the year when you start, which is not common in the private sector. I should know, I've worked in both. Actually, my private sector job is much less demanding.

I expect you will try and characterize statements of fact as complaints, which seems to be your modus operandi. However, I accepted these conditions happily when I did the work, because I loved my job.

BTW, volunteer fire departments are great in areas where there are few responses and small populations. They have my deepest respect. However, they don't work so well in more populated areas (particulary those with heavy fire seasons) for obvious reasons. So why do you begrudge people making a living in emergency services? Would you rather they didn't exist?

My brother in law, who works for a large corporation, makes a six figure salary and travels abroad frequently. He has a cogenial workplace and great benefits. Perhaps he should be unhappy because he doesn't have a government job?

If you wish to have the same benefits as government employees, you are free to apply, as is everyone else.


294 posted on 05/20/2006 6:23:15 PM PDT by bordergal
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To: bordergal

"NO government employee on this thread said anything about getting a raw deal. You are having an entirely imaginary argument (which scares me if you really are an engineer)."

Are we talking about the same thread?

If you aren't complaining about a raw deal, then how come it took 7 paragraphs not to do it?

As for the supposed imaginary arguments......all you have to do is rotate it 90 degrees and it becomes a real argument. (that's engineer humor, in case it eludes you)

As for the rest of your post, it's extrapolation and supposition, I won't even take that bait. I know what I am talking about, having been on both sides of the fence. I'm not thinking you do.


295 posted on 05/20/2006 7:25:17 PM PDT by RFEngineer
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To: durasell

"Privatize the gubmint! Outsource to India!"

While I definitely see the humor in this statement, privatization is something that can be done with greater success if folks in gov't had the inclination - that nobody really does in gov't is a demonstration of the sense of entitlement and disdain for the taxpayer on the part of most gov't employees that is really at the crux of this whole discussion.


296 posted on 05/20/2006 7:34:59 PM PDT by RFEngineer
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To: John Robertson

As a professional diplomat, there is no equivalent of my job in the private sector.

I have to move all over the world every few years, often to hardship and danger posts. My family has to move too. I have to learn new languages to perform my job. For example, I'm fluent in Japanese -- can you say the same?

As you can see, my situation isn't exactly as you imagine for federal workers.

You can wash that egg off your face now!


297 posted on 05/20/2006 7:57:29 PM PDT by Poundstone
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To: Poundstone

"As a professional diplomat, there is no equivalent of my job in the private sector."

Sniff, sniff. With pompous asses like yourself in the diplomatic corps, no wonder so many people hate Americans.

"I have to move all over the world every few years, often to hardship and danger posts. My family has to move too."

No, you don't HAVE to. You choose to. Same with your family.

"I have to learn new languages to perform my job. For example, I'm fluent in Japanese -- can you say the same?"

Did you want me to say it in Japanese? As I said, you are really coming off as a pompous ass.

"As you can see, my situation isn't exactly as you imagine for federal workers."

Yes it is. Exactly.

"You can wash that egg off your face now!"

That's not all that clever a comeback for a supersophisticated Japanese-speaking professional diplomat, Dude!


298 posted on 05/20/2006 10:52:10 PM PDT by John Robertson (Even if we disagree now, we may agree later. Or vice versa.)
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To: John Robertson

Just as with the military, there is no equivalent of a diplomatic corps in the private sector. Calm down and consider that.


299 posted on 05/21/2006 1:09:07 AM PDT by Poundstone
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To: muawiyah

"This study deleted USPS employees. At the same time he is comparing a workforce with an average of a bachelor's degree, and a quarter with a master's degree against the average US workforce ~ hardly a fair comparison."
I would like to see a reference for your profile of the Federal workforce. I seem to recall a lot of A's, C's, and O's in the Federal workforce with which I am familiar. And many of the T's were high school graduates.


300 posted on 05/21/2006 6:42:18 PM PDT by Whispering Smith
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