Posted on 05/19/2006 4:25:10 PM PDT by lauriehelds
The pay gap between private and public sector employees seems to be a given. Just this week, 10 congressmen made their case for a higher 2007 civilian pay raise than President Bush has requested by citing a 30 percent private-public gap reported by the Bureau of Labor Statistics.
"The federal government may never be able to compete with the private sector, dollar for dollar, but we must ensure that we do not fall further behind in the battle for talent," Reps. Tom Davis, R-Va.; Jon Porter, R-Nev.; Steny Hoyer, D-Md.; Chris Van Hollen, D-Md., and others said in a letter to fellow members.
But a new paper from the libertarian Washington-based think tank the Cato Institute argues that the pay gap actually travels in the other direction. Pointedly titled "Federal Pay Outpaces Private-Sector Pay," the paper by Chris Edwards, the institute's director of tax policy studies, makes the case for freezing government salaries.
By bundling federal benefits -- including defined pensions, the Thrift Savings Plan and health care subsidies -- together with wages, Edwards calculated that the average federal worker earned $100,178 in 2004, compared to $51,876 in salary and benefits for the average private-sector worker. Those numbers were based on statistics from the Bureau of Economic Analysis.
"The federal civilian workforce has become an elite island of secure and high-paid workers, separated from the ocean of private-sector American workers who must compete in today's dynamic economy," Edwards wrote.
In an interview, Edwards said he is trying to stir the pot on an issue that has no real adversaries. Federal employee unions are so vocal on pay issues, and Washington-area congressmen, including Republicans like Davis, who chairs the Government Reform Committee, are loyal to the many federally employed voters in their districts, Edwards said.
He said he suspects the BLS studies that find such a marked pay gap, and which do not take benefits into account, are flawed.
"There are questions about how these comparisons are done," Edwards said. "If you, say, look at a government lawyer versus a private lawyer, or accountants, the responsibilities and the hours worked per week can be quite radically different."
Most compelling, he argued, is the quit rate for federal employees, which is quite low and suggests that workers are satisfied with their pay.
Edwards said in his paper that some academic studies have found government workers to be overpaid, but his citation is a 1985 study by Steven Venti at the National Bureau of Economic Research.
Why did he pull from a 20-year-old study? Because, he said, there has been so much agreement in recent years on the pay gap that no one has bothered to complete an updated independent analysis.
Of course, well-put.
As it is now, to use the T here in Boston, you buy a token from the person in the booth, then use it in the turnstile.
The T system here in Boston has started to instal automated machines in the stations. Now, you go to a machine, buy a paper ticket, use it in the machine, and go through.
The person who used to give you a token now sits there reading a newspaper, and occassionally comes over to show an old person how to use the machine. Then he goes back to talking on the phone or reading his newspaper.
The drivers all seem top-notch, the supervisors are approachable, and there are few delays. So I am assuming most of the people I don't see are good workers.
But you don't have to be paranoid to be suspicious of the quality of government workers when many--not all, but not only one or two, either--are not exactly the type of folks you'd hire in your own business.
Yes, the next time, no quarters, no dimes, all nickels and pennies, at rush hour!
And when I'm killed by those in line, it will all be turned around (and rightly so) and I'll look like the bad guy. And equillibrium will be restored.
Yeah, I have no problem with people in public service making good wages in comparison to the private sector; I want quality people. But when I have worked with the homeless or with troubled kids and see guys making nearly ten times what I make...and COMPLAINING about it...well, they will have to do without my sympathy.
Actually I should click the spellcheck before I do anything else...
no...no...I made that word up, it's all good
Sorry that last post wasn't for you.
I live in a DC suburb crawling with federales and observe their fairly comfortable lifestyle. Most are, admittedly, SES-types. Dad's always home by 6pm, has every holiday and weekend off, nice vacation when kids are off from school. Can't think of one family that hasn't been to Disney World .. not the French Riviera. It's not fat city but it's quite comfortable. And it's secure. They all get to retire fairly young and live on decent pensions. All live in nice houses, not mansions; drive nice cars, not Rolls Royces.
In the meanwhile, they have taken NO RISK. None, zip, nada. Life is an even keel. I can't imagine one of them starting a company, even one that provides the same service they are salaried for with the government .. too risky.
Try comparing, say, the accountant who spends 30 years in the employ of Uncle Sam vs. the guy who goes out and starts his own accounting firm. I would venture a guess that the latter will work till the day he dies, even if he's been wildly successful after years of not having drawn a pay check for months at a time, much less having had a day off .. but that success, if it comes, is the payoff for his risk.
These are the choices made by people's personality types. You're either a corporate-type and take the safer, more secure big company or government job, or you're an entrepreneurial type who will venture out on your own and risk losing everything.
you hit a key point here, the extreme variability in roles and quality.
- Some Federal talent is world class
- Other are bottom of the barrel
- By and large they are on the same pay scale.
Some people don't keep score with money. (please, nobody flame me. it's an absolute fact). I suspect that many of the people at NASA etc. would pay to work there...
Private sector pension used to be more solid. Especially from our bed rock corporations. Feds still have the private sector beat. Beat hands down on pensions
Agree 100%. Speaking broadly and generally the Federal employee gets much better compensation and job stability. Never getting fired. That total package including benefits and slam dunk guaranteed pension is far better than the private sector. 50% better.
Once more for the stupids -- What I wrote above is the average. Don't bore me with how you bust your butt for Uncle Sam for little pay
Not out here in the oil patch.
Sick leave? Well, if you are sick, leave!
If you want to get paid, you work.
I have no idea, but I don't really have time to do a truth check on folks. I happen to have grown up with a girl whose dad was a bus driver for the city, and while my dad worked OT all his life, bringing up four kids, we did well but never went on vacations and such, while my friend's family, who had a family with four kids also, have never had a problem going on foreign vacations and such.
No, it's not everyone, but the crying poor from city, state and fed employees isn't particularly believable.
I'll get about half my salary in a pension (indexed to inflation) upon retirement. I can retire at age 50 with 20 years' service (which I have). This is only for the Foreign Service.
Upon retirement, I'll continue in the government-subsidized health plan.
I've also got a 401K to which the government contributes 5% of my salary. It's done pretty well over the last 15 years.
The CRCS was a traditional type pension plan where years in == % of salary. In addition, CRCS recipients did not pay into social security, but into a different fund.
Having a 401K and SSI is not some great pension plan. Most of the money in the plans was generated by the worker.
However, we agree on this point--Private sector pensions used to be more solid too.
In Abe Lincoln's time they used to shut down DC in the summer lest all the people die of disease......I've often noted that the 13 colonies strategically placed the Federal Capitol where no one could do much work due to the climate....indeed the growth of Wash DC, since 1960, directly parallels the availability of efficient AC!!!
You said a whole big nonchewable mouthful right there.
Gov't service used to be a noble thing.
Gov't employess used to be polite and helpful and were given politeness in turn.
Anymore a polite gov't employee is a hard thing to find. As for being helpful, that's even more rare.
In addition, if you are a gov't employee you have job security that has no equal.
In today's private sector job sucurity is very very rare, unless you are in one of the big unions.
This wasn't always the case but it has been since the late '70s.
I have nothing personally against any gov't employee but the service I get from the gov't isn't what it used to be.
This keep government agencies on their toes. There are jobs and divisions that should not be outsourced obviously.
Before we had the trend of outsourcing, the attitude was much worse. There was no need to for a government worker to provide anything less than the minimal effort to individuals seeking those government services. Where else were they going to go?
Here in MO, we have private firms running our Department of Motor vehicle license offices. They actually send an employee once a month to my work place to conduct licensing, tag renewal, new plates, title transfers business so I don't have to stand in line at their offices.
I'm sure we both could find horror stories of outsourced jobs that have not benefited the taxpayer, but remember it is a government employee writing the bid specification.
I think you are confounding government lawyers with SES types. One of the deals when you take that kind of job is that you LOSE your weekends as well as your opportunities for a business on the side.
Federal employees not only pay for their own retirements, the government mismanages their money!
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