Pay Gap: A Different Take (Government workers overpaid)

http://www.govexec.com/dailyfed/0506/051806pb.htm ^

[lauriehelds]

The pay gap between private and public sector employees seems to be a given. Just this week, 10 congressmen made their case for a higher 2007 civilian pay raise than President Bush has requested by citing a 30 percent private-public gap reported by the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

"The federal government may never be able to compete with the private sector, dollar for dollar, but we must ensure that we do not fall further behind in the battle for talent," Reps. Tom Davis, R-Va.; Jon Porter, R-Nev.; Steny Hoyer, D-Md.; Chris Van Hollen, D-Md., and others said in a letter to fellow members.

But a new paper from the libertarian Washington-based think tank the Cato Institute argues that the pay gap actually travels in the other direction. Pointedly titled "Federal Pay Outpaces Private-Sector Pay," the paper by Chris Edwards, the institute's director of tax policy studies, makes the case for freezing government salaries.

By bundling federal benefits -- including defined pensions, the Thrift Savings Plan and health care subsidies -- together with wages, Edwards calculated that the average federal worker earned $100,178 in 2004, compared to $51,876 in salary and benefits for the average private-sector worker. Those numbers were based on statistics from the Bureau of Economic Analysis.

"The federal civilian workforce has become an elite island of secure and high-paid workers, separated from the ocean of private-sector American workers who must compete in today's dynamic economy," Edwards wrote.

In an interview, Edwards said he is trying to stir the pot on an issue that has no real adversaries. Federal employee unions are so vocal on pay issues, and Washington-area congressmen, including Republicans like Davis, who chairs the Government Reform Committee, are loyal to the many federally employed voters in their districts, Edwards said.

He said he suspects the BLS studies that find such a marked pay gap, and which do not take benefits into account, are flawed.

"There are questions about how these comparisons are done," Edwards said. "If you, say, look at a government lawyer versus a private lawyer, or accountants, the responsibilities and the hours worked per week can be quite radically different."

Most compelling, he argued, is the quit rate for federal employees, which is quite low and suggests that workers are satisfied with their pay.

Edwards said in his paper that some academic studies have found government workers to be overpaid, but his citation is a 1985 study by Steven Venti at the National Bureau of Economic Research.

Why did he pull from a 20-year-old study? Because, he said, there has been so much agreement in recent years on the pay gap that no one has bothered to complete an updated independent analysis.

[bordergal]

Actually, I do, and please pass my thanks along them.
Even to you, although if my hubby just happens to save your home from a fire, goes on a search and rescue if you or your loved ones are hurt or lost in the backcountry, or if he responds to a vehicle accident and does his damndest to get your broken body to the hospital in time to save your life, you might want to actually consider not acting like a jerk.

[Wizy]

Actually, I would like to thank you, and your husband for your sacrifice, dedication, an selflessness...thank you!

[PushinTin]

Ah Laurie,

I just Love people that spout BS about the Gov. Let start with who made the rules for leave in the Federal Government? Could it be the MORONS the U S Americans elect to Congress? Hummm Think real hard on this one. I know eventually you might be able to figure it out. Now, lets move to GOV 102... Let look at the breakdown of the Federal Budget. It's a nasty little fact laden item that will actually tell you where your tax dollars are going. You might notice that Social Services comprises approximately 5 times the budget of any other single Department excluding (and I'm quite glad) the Department of Defense. Some Federal Government Agency's actually MAKE money (like mine, landing fee's) and it gets applied to the deficit to make the MORONS the U. S. Americans elect to Congress not look like MORONS. ALL Federal Government Employees have to answer to all the MORONS the U. S. Americans elect to Congress. Does the private sector have to answer to all the MORONS who get elected to the U. S. Congress. Could your company be run correctly by Hillary and Teddy and Nancy and Chuckie and... The Main Problem is obviously the Government Employee...



PushinTin and Overpaid....Maintain VFR...Later

[Wizy]

Well said

[lp boonie]

Federal full-time equivalent civilian employees: 1.8 million
Federal uniformed military personnel: 1.5 million
U.S. postal workers: 0.85 million
Federal grant-created jobs: 2.4 million
State and local mandate-created jobs: 4.7 million
Federal contract-created jobs: 5.6 million
source:GovExec.com January 1999

If you count postal workers it comes pretty close to your number. Postal workers usually aren't counted because they are a government enterprise and are theoretically self-supported (which they are for the most part, the government induced monopoly is the real issue with them). Notice the number of contractors and State and local mandates jobs. That's where the "growth" in the federal work force has really taken place.

Part of the military decrease is the Rumsfield policy to move support jobs (clerks, mechanics, cooks, etc.) to civilian or contractors and make more of the military direct fighters and not support clerks. Actually following the Marine model in all Marines are infantry first.

[Mr. Jeeves]

Still one of my favorites:

"There is a ready solution for anyone on the public payroll who feels that he is not paid enough: He can resign and work for a living. This applies with equal force to Congressmen, Welfare 'clients', school teachers, generals, garbage collectors, and judges." -- Robert A. Heinlein

[Wizy]

I think you may have missed the point, the government employees are not saying their "underpaid", just that they are not overpaid.

[dpa5923]

I understand your point, but I hate that "You work for me" line. When I was in the Marine Corps, I had a civilian call my office with an attitude, demanding this and that. Finally, she pulled out that "I pay your salary, you work for me" line. I told her I was a taxpayer, so in reality I am self-employed. Then I hung up on her.

Not exactly the same thing as your case, but I do hate that "You work for me" line. In a capitalist society, we all work for each other.

[bordergal]

Thanks so much. My husband loves what he does-and does his best to provide worthwhile service to the public.

I just wish some of the folks who think all govt employees are worthless drones would do his job for a day.

[Wizy]

Hey...I understand, I get shot at every so often in my government job, I wonder if my wife and kids think that "whoppin" 40,000 grand I bring home is worth my life?...Props to you and your husband...and again thank you.

[Starwolf]

you hit a key point here, the extreme variability in roles and quality.
- Some Federal talent is world class
- Other are bottom of the barrel
- By and large they are on the same pay scale.

Federal pensions today are not what they once were. The Feds were one of the first major employers to change over to defined contribution. Try that on a teachers union and watch the fur fly.

[Wizy]

Here's the real thing that bothers me about the way this whole post has gone...to all the folks who think your "gubmit" employees are "overpaid" lets put this in perspective shall we...some of the lowest paid "gubmit" employees are your: police, firefighters, Wardens, and Military. Who put their life on the line for you on a DAILY basis...wonder if they still would after listening to this CRAP.

[bordergal]

I can only speak for myself (but I bet your wife would agree), NO amount of money is worth a husband's life.
But we are proud of what you do. Not everyone is willing to sacrifice comfort or safety to help others.

Take care of yourself out there.

[Darkwolf377]

Not exactly the same thing as your case, but I do hate that "You work for me" line. In a capitalist society, we all work for each other.

Well, I understand not liking to HEAR it, but, frankly, it's the truth: If one works in a "public service" job, you're working for the taxpayer, as opposed to a private sector job. Not liking to hear it doesn't mean it's not the truth.

I thank you for your service; oddly enough, I've never even thought of using such a line (not that I ever have before) on a member of the military, who is protecting OUR country, theirs and mine.

The people who are risking their lives simply don't have that "I'm in a secure job and screw anyone who expects decent service" attitude.

[Wizy]

thank you

[Darkwolf377]

No...in your case, you had to deal with a lazy, self absorbed, pile of turds...but that one example of a city employee who was obviously worthless...does not make all government employees overpaid, or lazy. It's kinda like going into a convenience store...most of the clerks are pleasant and helpful....BUT there is that 1 of 10 or so that just need to get kicked!

I keep hearing this, and yet I keep seeing all of these lazy government workers. I guess the good ones are all working other shifts... ;)

[bannie]

I used to work for the DOD. If you worked in G.S. positions, the pay was determined by the national pay-rate for comparable positions. If you worked in Wage Grade positions, your pay was determined by a local pay-rate.

[Wizy]

Well I suggest moving then, or next time...bring a box of lemonheads (you know the little lemon candies) with you...and if the little puke mouths off again...start launchin. Man do those little suckers sting!

[Darkwolf377]

What business pays wages? They are all part of the cost of goods--so the general public is paying your wages too. Wonder how you would react to someone telling you THEY pay your wages? It is a rude remark to make to anyone.

How socialist of you. That you even have to ASK "What business pays wages?" and go into this laughable "logic" in order to defend a rude, lazy buffoon is very telling.

How would I react to someone who told me THEY pay my wages? Let's put it this way--if I was sitting on my ass with no other customers, and my company's owner approached me and asked me to do my job, and I whined that even though there was no one else asking me to do anything, and then whined about her having the nerve to do exactly what I'm paid to do, I shouldn't be so surprised to get such a reaction.

Funny how you don't consider HIS rudeness--which started it all. I guess only us "little people" are rude--a person whose job it is to take money giving me crap because he didn't want to have to count it into his little stacks of dimes and quarters, no, THAT wasn't rude; insisting I only buy one token, no THAT wasn't rude; telling me I shouldn't burden him with a type of money that is perfectly legal, no, THAT wasn't rude; making me ask for him let me purchase tokens THREE TIMES to simply get the serive he's supposed to do, no THAT wasn't rude...but when pushed to this extreme I finally tell him to do his job? Yeah, NOW someone's bein' rude! LOL

I know it takes all kinds of degrees and intelligence to handle the incredible duty of taking money and pushing a small metal disc through a slot, and for it our T workers get one of the best pay and retirement packages in the nation--and free medical care FOR LIFE.

They should be grateful MY TAXES go to pay for that, and they should have a smile and a thank you on their lips eight hours a day. If they can't handle that, I know it will be hard, but maybe we should try to find other people who can handle the incredibly challenging task of pushing small metal discs through a slot.

I guess in this same circumstance you'd apologize and grovel and beg to shine the guy's shoes for having the gall to expect him to take the seven seconds it would take to do his job, but the rest of us expect a higher degree of service in our "public servants".

[Wizy]

Lemies....Dark...shoot the lemies