Posted on 05/19/2006 4:25:10 PM PDT by lauriehelds
The pay gap between private and public sector employees seems to be a given. Just this week, 10 congressmen made their case for a higher 2007 civilian pay raise than President Bush has requested by citing a 30 percent private-public gap reported by the Bureau of Labor Statistics.
"The federal government may never be able to compete with the private sector, dollar for dollar, but we must ensure that we do not fall further behind in the battle for talent," Reps. Tom Davis, R-Va.; Jon Porter, R-Nev.; Steny Hoyer, D-Md.; Chris Van Hollen, D-Md., and others said in a letter to fellow members.
But a new paper from the libertarian Washington-based think tank the Cato Institute argues that the pay gap actually travels in the other direction. Pointedly titled "Federal Pay Outpaces Private-Sector Pay," the paper by Chris Edwards, the institute's director of tax policy studies, makes the case for freezing government salaries.
By bundling federal benefits -- including defined pensions, the Thrift Savings Plan and health care subsidies -- together with wages, Edwards calculated that the average federal worker earned $100,178 in 2004, compared to $51,876 in salary and benefits for the average private-sector worker. Those numbers were based on statistics from the Bureau of Economic Analysis.
"The federal civilian workforce has become an elite island of secure and high-paid workers, separated from the ocean of private-sector American workers who must compete in today's dynamic economy," Edwards wrote.
In an interview, Edwards said he is trying to stir the pot on an issue that has no real adversaries. Federal employee unions are so vocal on pay issues, and Washington-area congressmen, including Republicans like Davis, who chairs the Government Reform Committee, are loyal to the many federally employed voters in their districts, Edwards said.
He said he suspects the BLS studies that find such a marked pay gap, and which do not take benefits into account, are flawed.
"There are questions about how these comparisons are done," Edwards said. "If you, say, look at a government lawyer versus a private lawyer, or accountants, the responsibilities and the hours worked per week can be quite radically different."
Most compelling, he argued, is the quit rate for federal employees, which is quite low and suggests that workers are satisfied with their pay.
Edwards said in his paper that some academic studies have found government workers to be overpaid, but his citation is a 1985 study by Steven Venti at the National Bureau of Economic Research.
Why did he pull from a 20-year-old study? Because, he said, there has been so much agreement in recent years on the pay gap that no one has bothered to complete an updated independent analysis.
As a Fed, I agree with caveats, Feds have good benefits, which does attract good performers. I can't agree regarding the "pay gap" because that's a locality issue. An engineer in the government may earn much more money outside the government depending on the locality.
This study deleted USPS employees. At the same time he is comparing a workforce with an average of a bachelor's degree, and a quarter with a master's degree against the average US workforce ~ hardly a fair comparison.
Overpaid jobs: Actors, musicians, entertainers and athletes.
This is a conversation for another thread -- I don't want to be accused of hijacking this thread. I'd be glad to answer Freepmailed quesions or speak out on another thread dedicated to the topic, which I am hugely interested in.
But briefly -- it's an interesting thing to consider that geography shapes opinions and points of view. I've maintained that rural life differs from urban life in that in urban life man shapes the landscape and that in rural life, the landscape shapes the man. Simplistic, but true to a large degree.
One of the biggest difference between the urban and rural is that urban life is essentially "public." People dine out more, they seek recreation in public rather than private, etc. etc. Generally speaking, the home does not play as large a role day to day life in the city as it does in rural or suburban environments.
Also, the city is not as impersonal as it seems to outsiders. NYC is a collection of neighborhoods. The guy in th bodega (deli) knows you, you know him, the same faces appear on the street day to day, the subway clerk recognizes you etc. etc.
Newman!
... and rub shoulders with left-wing, politically correct Democrats
Rub shoulders with everyone, particularly on the subway.
One of my favorite NYC characters is Radioman (Radio Man). He's a homeless guy who began showing up on movie sets years ago. He had a beat up vintage 1970s radio he listened to, but would turn it off during the scenes. A couple craft services guys would feed him, then he ran errands for a couple guys, etc. etc. now he's a fixture on movie sets. All the movie stars know Radioman and consider it good luck to have him on the set. Over the last five or six years he's starting to appear in movies in the background.
Just to make your day:
I joined the federal government in 2000, at age 61. I then paid abount $350 to get retirement credit for 4 years Military Academy time. A year later I was eligible to retire - for the third time. Private industry sure didn't offer that plan!
Okay I give up. Who watered and weeded the forest before the US Forest Service?
Well in the private sector lots of us get no paid holidays, no paid leave, no sick days and absolutely no paid vacation days. That's what happens when you own the company and you are your own boss.
Every minute taken off from work is a dollar lost. Every day that sales are down means less takehome pay for all. The federal and all govt employees can't comprehend the insecurity that the average small business owner lives with day in and day out.
No paychecks save what can be scraped off the top. All new equipment, all building and operating cash loans are your responsibility and there's no one to hold your hand or tell you what to do next.
We pay crushing payroll, income and sales taxes for the privilege of not wallowing in the public trough as do the 30% of all US citizens who work for some form of government.
Few folks can get a government job at the age of 61 except a newly elected Congress critter or one of her staffers, eh!
There's a risk to being in the ownership class, though ~ big risk. Big rewards as well!
If the typical federale had owned that furniture he would have earned the right to sell it. You can't comprehend the level of accountabililty involved with "ownership" when you compare ownership to theft.
Thankfully, my dealings with government has been minimal over the last 60 years, but in general I would describe the experiences as not "customer friendly" and I gained the distinct impression that they often hated their jobs but kept them anyway. That is understandable in that they do not have to be concerned with losing customers.
In the business world, we have to worry about customers. They pay the bills and we don't have police to send out to force them to do business with us. And people who so obviously hate their jobs typically don't last long unless they are member of some powerful union.
I know working in the post office is not a walk in the park. But I don't know of many jobs that are.
"We don't make big bucks in the federal government, I assure you. Believe me, the taxpayers are getting their money's worth!"
I don't know you, but I really don't have to. Chances are you are underworked, overpaid and not really qualified for the job that you compare yourself to in the private sector.
I know this to be a fact as once upon a time I was a gov't employee. That's the way it is. You best keep your mouth shut and enjoy the free ride as long as you can. Out in the real world, you'll be eaten alive.
Those who can get jobs outside of gov't often do. Those in gov't do not because they cannot. There are, of course notable exceptions, but there is really no debate necessary here. You are overpaid, underworked and the only disconnect is in your mind.
Every "owner" can decide to sell the office furniture. No federal employe can decide to sell the office furniture.
There's a such a difference in the two kinds of employment they really aren't comparable.
Gee, all those people at the national labs, the pentagon, CDC, NASA, etc. just a bunch of second rate talent?
"Public sector employees lack the opportunities presented in the private sector."
Wow, I missed that vote. Did someone pass a law saying that someone working on the government side couldn't take a job in the private sector. Even the ones who AREN'T supposed to use the revolving door between government regulatory work and the private sector they regulate largely ignore that law anyway.
I know a TON of ex-Coasties Marine Safety types working either for ABS, the shipping companies, big Fishing, or the like. No cooling off period or nothing.
"Right now the government workforce is undergoing A-76 where fed employees are bidding against the private sector for federal jobs. "
A-76 only rarely selects the non-gov't option. It's a BS process rarely used appropriately - but it does give gov't employees a sense of worth that is probably not deserved. It's almost never an apples to apples comparison. You are overpaid and underworked almost for certain.
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