Pay Gap: A Different Take (Government workers overpaid)

http://www.govexec.com/dailyfed/0506/051806pb.htm ^

[muawiyah]

When you work "inside" a very large organization, you will soon discover that folks are coming and going all the time.

This is probably invisible to the general public.

[Alissa]

Federal employees should not be grouped together. Feds in Washington DC for the most part are useless with a few exceptions and they are DoD/NSA/CIA/FBI employees who are working their butts off, with some exceptions even in those agencies. Feds outside DC are a pretty decent group overall.

[operation clinton cleanup]

I accumulated 60 days leave upon separation. I got a check for 2 months pay. They did not deduct weekends and Holidays.

[RavenATB]

"The sense of "F you, I've got mine" from all public sector employees is the reason there's such a negative attitude about them."

I'm not going to dispute anyone's story, but I would like to say that I supervise a fairly significant number of DoD "GS" employees. And, I work indirectly, but frequently, with about thirty more. Most of these people are electronic engineers, or "double Es."

Virtually to a man (or woman), this group of people are highly professional and dedicated. Frequently...especially in times of national need...they voluntarily work overtime, often without asking for compensatory time off to match the overtime they've given.

Many of these people could walk out our door tomorrow and get more money than they currently make. Some of them stay for the security, and some of them stay for what they hope will be an opportunity in the future. But, I believe that a great many of them stay with us because they're very proud of what they do, and because of the respect and admiration they have for the people around them.

I used to joke about civilian employees, too. And, I've seen my share of lazy "good-for-nothings" in other government offices, so I'm sure that those I work with are well above the average.

But like many other professions there "pros," and "slugs." The real shame is that the "system" does such a good job at protecting the slugs that they tarnish the dedication and professionalism of some of the rest.

[Alissa]

We have contract employees, they are about the same as Feds. Some are worth their pay, some are not.

[Popman]

Still, this seemingly generous vacation time is dramatically reduced from the 3 full months the federales got up until the draining of the swamps in and around DC.

In Abe Lincoln's time they used to shut down DC in the summer lest all the people die of disease.

Wow, I can't believe you justifying 4 weeks vacation from the 1860's

Anywhere I have worked in the private sector, I had to work at least 15 years to qualify for 3 weeks vacation

[BW2221]

On military leave, a buddy signs you in Friday even though you don't come back until Monday morning.

[marktwain]

"And a lot of these people are, myth to the contrary, not slackers, but hard workers who work understaffed, with constant threat of their job positions being eliminated, and often in specialized technical areas such as fire behavior science or remote sensing or other specialized capabilities. "

I never said they were slackers, I said they were well paid and had good benefits.

I have directly seen the effects of downsizing, especially during the Clinton years, and experienced much of what you noted. I also saw that productivity per person increased, and that we lost a lot of "dead wood".

I have come to believe that a fair amount of civil service jobs are necessary and are positive for the nation. It is extremely hard to determine what they are, however, and very difficult to eliminate agencies once they have started. Not impossible, just very difficult.

[muawiyah]

Because of the federal retirement system you don't have many folks hanging around USPS beyond prime working years. That brings the accident rate down.

On the other hand, they operate the world's largest vehicular fleet ~ and that make them pretty much average in the category of industrial type employers.

The one place where they star involves employee killings ~ they've always been far below average. That's why when it happens it gets so much coverage in the news.

The company makes reasonable efforts to reduce risks faced by letter carriers who serve "bad parts of town". Employee parking lots are well fenced and guarded so that the majority of employees who work nights are made as safe as possible as they go to and from their cars.

Still, there are bombs, and anthrax, and other stuff ~ you would simply not believe the dangerous substances people think they can mail!

Some day they'll figure out that when UPS turns you down, you really shouldn't try slipping it past USPS.

[combat_boots]

"The federales have absolutely nothing comprable to 'personal days'."

Untrue. I know plenty of people with comp time, which is in addition to 6 weeks vacation and, etc, holdidays, etc.

They're in the office only as much as out. They used to take 2 hour lunches, but don't do that anymore.

[muawiyah]

All those agencies you named have more than their fair share of slackers.

Part of the problem is they are all in businesses where activity has irregular, unscheduled surges. That means you have to keep more specialists in various fields on hand than you need for an average workload. Else you will be caught short when the sky falls in.

Most other federal workers in DC are headquarters types pretty similar to their private sector counterparts. They are slowly being replaced with bloodless, soulless computer systems! (Brrrraaaahahahahahahahha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!).

[Beagle8U]

"Do you like your letter carrier?"

Short anwser is no.

I got tired of picking mail out of the ditch and got a PO box. Now I have to pay $25 a year to pick up my own mail, but as a bonus, half the mail in my box is someone else's, who knows where half of mine goes.

[muawiyah]

Federal employees (in DC) used to get nearly half the year off. Through the years that's been whittled down to the present system. At the same time they were working 6 day weeks many years after that practice was no longer customary ANYWHERE in America.

[Doohickey]

I have no doubt that you work hard. I just came off of a consulting gig with a Federal agency and previous to that I had never seen such a bunch of self-absorbed slackers in my entire life.

[Wristpin]

True. But if I only take leave on weekdays and don't combine with weekends or Holidays.. it's 30 days paid vacation per year.


The thing is though...Many do take leave around the holidays and if you leave the geograpphic area on a weekend you must take leave.

On my last tour I worked amongst federal civilians who had the flex schedule(every other friday off). Ssy if you wanted to visit family over thanksgiving and spend the weekend...4 days leave. If the civilians lined up their CWS correctly they were charged no days. Even better they could take vacation on mon, tues, weds and be away for the holiday.

I'm not saying the military leave deal isn't a good deal, but when you subtract out the weekends and holidays it is comparable to a civilian plan.

[durasell]

Why would anyone want to live in NYC? City Income Tax, State Income Tax, Outrageous Sales taxes on every thing you buy. Not for me!

Consider moving to Texas, Florida, Nevada....all high growth states with NO STATE INCOME TAX.



You live in NYC to test yourself against the best in your field. To re-invent yourself. To satisfy curiosity. To make a large pile of money. To indulge interests that can't be indulged elsewhere...

[muawiyah]

Some agencies might have comp time. Mine didn't. However, if you'd been doing 12 to 14 hour days for 3 or 4 weeks, weekends included (not unusual when preparing for a major conference with hundreds of students, or for a postage rate increase), your boss might cut you some slack and let you sleep in Monday or something.

Comp time is NOT the same as what folks are calling personal time though.

[marktwain]

"NYC is different than rural areas. No better or worse, just different. I could write a book on the contrasts..."

Sounds interesting, and it sounds as though you can't afford to write one at your pay scale. I have thought of living in a large city for 6 months, just to experience it. The closest I have come was living in San Diego for three months in 1974.

I was not impressed. Urban life simply does not seem to appeal to me. I feel as if I am surrounded by millions of the deadliest predators on earth, while forced to survive without effective weapons.
I guess the last has changed with 38 States now having "Shall Issue" concealed carry laws. But not for NY or California.

[BW2221]

... and rub shoulders with left-wing, politically correct Democrats.

[RavenATB]

"On military leave, a buddy signs you in Friday even though you don't come back until Monday morning."

That's a UCMJ-punishable offense. If anyone who worked for me pulled a stunt like and I found out it would be a dark day in his/her life.