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To: TigersEye
We have no arguments in principle. I prefer a rather Libertarian approach to a lot of things. But it is not that way things are...but rather the way things ought to be. In addition, most Americans disagree with us at this time. They vote too and because we live in a democracy we are all tied together for better or for worse. Because of that, I do not believe we can suddenly get back there from here. Therefore, we have to deal with the reality of the mess we have made and try to improve it. Those are our choices...make some progress or make no progress. Period.

(I also thing a strictly libertarian approach has downsides as well, but that is an argument for another day.)

What has been proposed by many on this thread is not a libertarian market model, but rather a protectionist market model. A "we need no one other than ourselves" approach to being American. I fundamentally opposed to that, and despite the oft misunderstood quote from Jefferson (I think) about avoiding international entanglements, I believe our founding fathers never intended that either.

In many ways, technology has brought us here. It has created situations and opportunities that our founding fathers never dreamed of. We deal with them the best (hopefully) we can. Is free trade a perfect solution. No. Will it fix all that is wrong with the world. No. Is it an attempt to give American companies access to the rest of the world without being punished for being "American?" Yes. Will it help us eventually carry less of the burden of Mexico...Maybe. But it may be our best hope.

Like I said, I completely agree with you in principle. But we can't get there from here without starting somewhere. Even then it will be a long, hard slog with a lot of set backs. That's ok. I'm a patient...girl. ; ).

As an aside, I have a much greater frustration with the fedgov's meddling in national companies than I have with them creating international trade treaties.

822 posted on 05/22/2006 11:11:44 PM PDT by pollyannaish
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To: pollyannaish
I don't think there has been any great emphasis on a protectionist model on this thread. The subject isn't really focused on that. There is a difference between open markets between nations and combining two or more nations as a single trading entity. That is really what I and others object to.

Especially when it includes some asinine notion of "shared security." Can you imagine every Mexican citizen having a card allowing them free access to travel the whole of the U.S. and Canada? I can assure you Mexico will never reciprocate with that sort of freedom in their country. Not only that but there is a large and growing Islamic community in Mexico who report great success in converting native Mexicans to Islam. They'd have no trouble getting that travel card.

When are they going to allow U.S. citizens to actually own property in Mexico? When hell freezes over I suspect. When will Mexico permit Americans to politic in their country? Currently it would land you in prison for two years if you carried a sign at a rally like we saw here.

I agree that we won't restore this Republic overnight. In fact I don't think it's possible unless we take it to the streets. The only reason I ever post here is the longshot hope that it won't have to come to that. The amnesty bills in the Senate will assure us of great civil strife IMO.

828 posted on 05/22/2006 11:32:28 PM PDT by TigersEye (Sedition and treason are getting to be a Beltway fashion.)
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To: pollyannaish
What has been proposed by many on this thread is not a libertarian market model, but rather a protectionist market model. A "we need no one other than ourselves" approach to being American.

I sure missed those! Got any links to those posts?

846 posted on 05/23/2006 12:13:34 AM PDT by calcowgirl ("Liberalism is just Communism sold by the drink." P. J. O'Rourke)
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