[dirtboy]

There's also that pesky little 1979 Supreme Court case, Smith v. Maryland

And in that case, investigators had clear evidence that Smith was engaging in harassing calls. That is the problem with the government database - it gets calling data for everyone, not just those with suspected ties to terrorism. And a pen register is a very limited device - whereas modern data mining can do a lot more within the context of a searchable database and the ability to daisy-chain call linkages.

[NinoFan]

And in that case, investigators had clear evidence that Smith was engaging in harassing calls. That is the problem with the government database - it gets calling data for everyone, not just those with suspected ties to terrorism. And a pen register is a very limited device - whereas modern data mining can do a lot more within the context of a searchable database and the ability to daisy-chain call linkages.

Bingo! And even IF this latest program is constitutional, that doesn't answer the question of whether it is legal.

[Doctor Stochastic]

If someone turns over the phone link records to me, and pays my fee plus expenses, I may find interesting linkages.

Divorce attorneys, private investigators, investigative reporters, district attorneys, in terms of data, if you've got the money, I've got the mine.

[MEGoody]

That is the problem with the government database - it gets calling data for everyone, not just those with suspected ties to terrorism.

Yeah, and we all know that terrorists keep the same phone number for years and years! :::sarcasm off:::

[oceanview]

so what? are you telling us you will only be happy when the government is hobbled in its use of technology, below the level of telemarketer boiler-room capability?

its obviously not possible to get court orders for specific persons call data in advance - because the purpose of this program is to try and identify these people BEFORE they commit terrorist acts. to mine them out, you have to have all the data before you actually know who they are - so court orders are not possible.

absent programs like this - what you are essentially telling us is that we have to accept the Dems model for domestic anti-terror - use the judicial system. remember, our court and our law enforcement apparatus in this country are not designed to thwart crime before it happens, its really a system mostly designed to punish those who commit crimes AFTER THEY OCCUR. that's not what most americans want to hear regarding the domestic war on terrorism.

[webstersII]

Data mining. That's not (currently) illegal.

A buddy of mine worked for a cell phone company. He told me that he could sit at his desk and pull up anyone's cell phone records and see the numbers they called, what towers were handling the call, and how long they talked. Those companies could sell that data if they choose to do so.

I asked him if they also recorded the conversation. He said they did not -- as far as he knew -- but he said it wouldn't be difficult. It's not difficult to do, just too expensive to store. Of course, storage media is getting cheaper and cheaper.

[Political Junkie Too]

Can I assume that you assume that the government is also getting the names with the numbers even though they claim that they are not? Otherwise, why are you concerned about a list of numbers that called other other numbers with no personal identifying information to go with those numbers?

-PJ