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To: kabar
Dominate? The Reps have a razor thin edge in both the House and Senate.

Sorry, you can't excuse the Republican Senate on the basis of semantics or rhetoric (e.g., my "dominate" versus your "razor thin"). The point is that the Republicans have the majority. Whether it's big dominance or "razor thin" dominance is a distinction without a difference. Dominance = majority = 55 percent.

The other point is that Republican Senators from Frist on down can't seem to envision an immigration bill without an amnesty attached to it. I mean amnesty as in "path to citizenship". Get a work visa in nearly any other country and see if it provides some automatic "path to citizenship." It won't. Typically they are one to three years, often renewable, but completely distinct from the immigration or citizenship process. This is not rocket science, even for third-wortld countries.

To assert that there's some overwhelming problem in crafting the solution that GWB prescribed in March 2004 - a 3-year, once-renewable work visa - is just the height of disingenuousness. Any conservative Republican who supports that position is living in intellectual denial.

You can't disguise that fact with mere semantics, and Republicans ignore it at their own electoral peril (did you see that 5 of 7 members of the Herndon, VA town council were ousted last week due to last year's controversial and widely-opposed support for a "day laborer center"?)

655 posted on 05/07/2006 10:30:16 AM PDT by angkor
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To: angkor
Dominance = majority = 55 percent.

Meaningless drivel.  It takes 60 to pass anything in the Senate.

And have you ever heard the term "RINO?"

To reverse a Will Rogers line, "I don't belong to an organized political party.  I'm a Republican."

The point is that sitting it out or, worse, voting for a dim because the Republicans aren't perfect is the kind of stupid attitude that got us 8 years of Bill Clinton.  You are serving the wrong interests when you let this type of thinking dominate how you view the choices before us (there, that's an appropriate use of the concept).  There are people to work for who can make a difference within the Republican party.  No libertarian has a chance of getting elected so working for them is counterproductive.  There are no Democrats so good on any issue that their election will make giving one or both houses to the Democrat party as a whole into a worthwhile thing.  So get over your greviences with clowns like Specter and find people you can work for.  I don't care if they're not in your district or state.  Support them.  And if you have to hold your nose and vote for the Specter's of the world if they are your available candidates so that the better party has a chance of getting something, if not everything, accomplished then do it.

The power (and willingness) to destroy something is the absolute power to control that thing.  Right now the dims are willing to destroy our country if they can't control it.  Don't cooperate with them.

665 posted on 05/07/2006 10:49:28 AM PDT by Phsstpok (There are lies, damned lies, statistics and presentation graphics, in descending order of truth)
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To: angkor
Sorry, you can't excuse the Republican Senate on the basis of semantics or rhetoric (e.g., my "dominate" versus your "razor thin"). The point is that the Republicans have the majority. Whether it's big dominance or "razor thin" dominance is a distinction without a difference. Dominance = majority = 55 percent.

It is not semantics but a political reality. In the Senate under the current rules, 55 is not enough. You need 60 to be filibuster proof.

The other point is that Republican Senators from Frist on down can't seem to envision an immigration bill without an amnesty attached to it. I mean amnesty as in "path to citizenship". Get a work visa in nearly any other country and see if it provides some automatic "path to citizenship." It won't. Typically they are one to three years, often renewable, but completely distinct from the immigration or citizenship process. This is not rocket science, even for third-wortld countries.

Frist must deal not only with the GOP majority, which includes Collins, Snowe, McCain, Chafee, et.al., but also, the 45 strong Dem opposition, which has the luxury of being united because they want the issue not the bill. Other senators like Sessions have a plan and there are plenty of amendments that will be voted upon.

The big problem confronting Frist is what do about the 12 to 20 million who are already here. None of the proposals on immigration reform are viable unless the borders are sercured first. It is like having a water pipe break in your basement. First you need to turn off the water, then you can deal with water damage.

To assert that there's some overwhelming problem in crafting the solution that GWB prescribed in March 2004 - a 3-year, once-renewable work visa - is just the height of disingenuousness. Any conservative Republican who supports that position is living in intellectual denial.

We already have H1B and H2B visas, which just need to be expanded. Again, what we have is a political kabuki dance in the Senate. It is all about the future Hispanic vote, the largest and fastest growing minority.

When you look at states like California, where according to the 2000 census figures, Mexican-born residents total 3.9 million out of a population of around 34 million, you can understand the political significance of what is happening. In 1990 Mexican born residents were the largest foreign born group in 18 states. In 2000 they now constitute the largest group in 30 states. Add this to fact that 33.1 million or 11.5% of our total population is foreign born, you should be able to understand the political significance of what is happening. The GOP is trying to avoid being labelled as the anti-immigration party by the Dems.

You can't disguise that fact with mere semantics, and Republicans ignore it at their own electoral peril (did you see that 5 of 7 members of the Herndon, VA town council were ousted last week due to last year's controversial and widely-opposed support for a "day laborer center"?)

I live a few miles away from Herndon and am very familiar about what happened. The point is that not every state and every Congressional district is the same. Taking a strong anti-illegal immigrant stance may not work in Southern California or Florida. Each GOP and Dem must judge the mood and predeliction of their constituents. Both parties are trying to take both sides of the issue and appeal to everyone. Their stance depends on what audience they are talking to.

701 posted on 05/07/2006 11:15:31 AM PDT by kabar
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