Posted on 04/27/2006 4:59:30 PM PDT by Lessismore
Before Common Era. A secular replacement of BC.
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On Saturday, August 10, 2002 at 4:49 PM, it occurred to me that the inflated Thera date (for a super eruption that didn't occur) may have been engineered in order to push back the beginning of the Hyksos period, solving a chronological problem for the 2nd Intermediate Period. The New Kingdom has been artificially extended backwards into the period that was actually the Hyksos rule, necessitating a reduction in the length of time of that rule, as well as unattested contemporariness (?) for various sequential dynasties. Pulling the beginning backwards helps Egyptologists, but it makes the problem of dating Greek strata worse, further extending the dark age. OTOH, it's nice to see the Exodus making egress from the New Kingdom, in which it doesn't belong.Bronze Age Myths?A first rule of statistics is that the existence of a correlation does not itself prove a causal connection... This paper examines some of the available evidence for these two Bronze Age 'catastrophes', the one real and in need of a calendar date, the other hypothesized on archaeological grounds and dated by a tenuous link through tree rings to an Icelandic volcano... Despite several cautionary comments from both archaeologists (Manning 1988; Warren 1988) and geologists (Pyle 1989; 1990), the 1628 BC date, or one close to it, continues to be accepted (e.g. Michael and Betancourt 1988), without questioning why the effects of the Santorini eruption should be especially recognizable in the ice-core and tree-ring sequences. Large-scale explosive volcanic activity is common on a global scale (Zielinski et al. 1996), and so before accepting the possibility that the Santorini eruption can be recognized by unusual perturbations in the regional records of ice-cores or tree-rings, the case for its distinctive character must be proved.
Volcanic Activity and Human Response in the Mediterranean and North Atlantic Region
Paul C. Buckland
Andrew J. Dugmore
Kevin J. Edwards
Antiquity Vol. 71 (1997), pp. 581-593.
You would think a few ice core samples would have settled the matter by now. But no! :(
Fifteen Frequently Asked QuestionsQ4: Where does CoD stand with the scientific dating for the explosion of Thera which is raising, rather than lowering, Bronze Age chronology?
Peter James et al
In the mid-1980s dendrochronologists proposed a way of dating the explosion of Thera scientifically. They suggested that narrow tree-rings (caused by frost) around 1628 BC in North America reflected the adverse weather caused by the volcano. Such an event seemed to be confirmed by later finds of frost-ring damage in Irish tree-rings and a peak of sulphuric acid in the Greenland ice-cores. This ran counter to the archaeological dating of the Thera explosion to c. 1500 BC.
Both vulcanologists (notably David Pyle of Cambridge) and archaeologists (notably Peter Warren of Bristol) advised caution about such "proxy dating". Frost-ring damage and acidity peaks might well be caused by volcanic eruption, but there was no evidence to show which volcano was responsible. Nevertheless, by the 1990s an increasing number of scholars had jumped on the 'scientific dating' bandwaggon, attempting to raise the beginning of the Late Bronze Age Greece to accommodate the 1628 BC date. Manning (1992), for example, insisted that the 1620s acid peak was the only signature in the ice-cores which was close enough in time to match the Thera event.
We have always remained sceptical of the case for a high date for Thera, suspecting that the whole thing would eventually fall through. Unfortunately, our position recently led an otherwise favourable reviewer to remark that we took a "sceptical view of the new scientific dating techniques" (Gerding 1997/8, 160), which is far from the truth. Proxy dating is not to be confused with the scientific techniques themselves.
As it happens, we have now been vindicated. When further work was published on the Greenland ice-cores the real reason why the 1620s date looked so conspicuous became clear. Due to budgetary constraints, a thorough search measuring the sulphuric acid from each year had never been undertaken! When this was done, the 1620s BC 'event' ceased to be special. Similar peaks of sulphuric acid are now known to exist in the 16th, 15th, 14th and 13th centuries (Zielinski et al. 1994)! Any of these (for example those from the ice-core years 1594, 1454, 1327 and 1284) might represent the Thera eruption. Worse still, small particles of volcanic ejecta have now been found in one of the very ice-levels from Greenland. Analysis has shown that their chemical composition does not match that of Thera (Zielinski & Germani 1998a). Clearly miffed, Manning (1998) published a "correction" to the geologists' conclusions, arguing that they had misinterpreted their data and that the particles came from Thera after all. The geologists' response (Zielinksi & Germani 1998b) stated, in as many words, that Manning was out of his depth and simply did not understand the methods involved.
Apart from the entertainment value of watching these developments from the sidelines, we are now able to stress that there is no longer any 'scientific' consensus on the high dating. Indeed, the direct evidence from the Greenland ice-cores suggests that the c. 1628 BC event should not be linked with the explosion of Thera, but with that of an unidentified volcano.
In short there is no good evidence for raising the dates for the beginning of the Late Bronze Age in Greece, rather than lowering them - as we feel should be the case. (Even though, strictly speaking, a raising of the beginning and a lowering of the end are not mutually exclusive, as the real length of the Late Bronze Age remains sub judice.)
The estimated 207 BC synch might match the only historical record (Strabo) which survives from ancient literature, but another estimate (of the dozen or so eruptions in the past 200,000 years) is 197 BC, which IMHO is more accurate.New Ice-Core EvidenceDetermining a reliable calendrical age of the Santorini (Minoan) eruption is necessary to place the impact of the eruption into its proper context within Bronze Age society in the Aegean region. The high-resolution record of the deposition of volcanically produced acids on polar ice sheets, as available in the SO42-time series from ice cores (a direct signal), and the high-resolution record of the climatic impact of past volcanism inferred in tree rings (a secondary signal) have been widely used to assign a 1628/1627 age to the eruption. The layer of ice in the GISP2 (Greenland) ice core corresponding to 1623±36 , which is probably correlative to the 1628/1627 event, not only contains a large volcanic-SO42-spike, but it contains volcanic glass. Composition of this glass does not match the composition of glass from the Santorini eruption, thus severely challenging the 1620s age for the eruption. Similarly, the GISP2 glass does not match the composition of glass from other eruptions (Aniakchak, Mt. St. Helens, Vesuvius) thought to have occurred in the 17th century nor does it match potential Icelandic sources. These findings suggest that an eruption not documented in the geological record is responsible for the many climate-proxy signals in the late 1620s . Although these findings do not unequivocally discount the 1620s age, we recommend that 1628/1627 no longer be held as the "definitive" age for the Santorini eruption.
Challenges the 1620s
age for the Santorini
(Minoan) Eruption
by Gregory A. Zielinski
and Mark S. Germani
13 July 1997Santorini, GreeceSantorini is complex of overlapping shield volcanoes. Basalt and andesite lava flows that make the shield are exposed in the cliff below the town of Phira. Some of the cliff is thought to be a caldera wall associated with an eruption 21,000 year ago. Druitt and Francaviglia (1992) found evidence of at least 12 large explosive eruptions in the last 200,000 years at Santorin i...
Akroteri, a Minoan city on the south part of Thera, is being excavated. About 3-6 feet (1-2 m) of ash fell on the city which had a population of about 30,000. The residents appear to have been successfully evacuated prior to the eruption. No bodies have been found in the ash like those at Vesuvius. Archeologists also reported that movable objects had been taken from the city...
The Kameni Islands formed after the caldera. Eleven eruptions since 197 B.C. have made the two islands. The most recent eruption at Santorini was in 1950 on Nea Kameni, the northern island. The eruption was phreatic and lasted less than a month. It constructed a dome and produced lava flows.Dendrochronological Dating, Results And Open ProblemsIn 1984 Val LaMarche and Kathy Hirschboeck pointed out a severe frost ring in their Californian bristlecone pine tree-ring record relating to the calendar year 1627 BC. Their suggestion that this frost event might have been due to the eruption of the Santorini volcano in the Aegean is still a source of active debate. Their work stimulated the observation of a series of narrowest-ring events in an Irish oak chronology at dates 3195 BC, 2345 BC, 1159 BC, 207 BC and AD 540. These dates, it turns out, fall in the vicinity of several possibly traumatic environmental events marked in human records by such phenomena as dynastic changes, Dark Ages and plagues (Baillie 1995).
by Mark Baillie
Geoarchaeology:"Artifacts from Akrotiri, linked to the Egyptian calendar [sic] put the Thera eruption at more than a hundred years later [than 1644 +/- 20 BC]. While the controversy remains open, it is our view that the volcanic activity recorded in the Greenland ice core more likely came from nearby Iceland than from the eastern Mediterranean (this may be testable by any chemical signature). [p 158-159]
The Earth-Science Approach to Archaeological Interpretation
by George (Rip) Rapp, Jr. and Christopher L. Hill
"Living samples from a freshwater lake on limestone terrain have been known to give a radiocarbon date of up to 1600 BP." [p 166]Ancient Modern Life And Carbon DatingPrimordial carbon may come from limestone or natural gas welling up from the earth's interior. Modern life forms that metabolize primordial rather than atmospheric carbon dioxide, with its cosmic-ray produced carbon-14, will appear extremely old when carbon-dated. Mice eating such apparently ancient life forms at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory, California, were carbon-dated as being 13,000 years old, and were expected to attain a ripe old age of 35,000 in a few months.
by William R. Corliss
Its Bush's fault!
We shore have.
from a big mutha of an eruption -- in prehistoric times, 22 thousand years ago.Marine tephra from the Cape Riva eruption (22 ka) of Santorini in the Sea of Marmara[Abstract] A discrete tephra layer has been discovered in three marine sediment cores from the Sea of Marmara, eastern Mediterranean. The rhyodacitic glass chemistry and the stratigraphical position suggest a Santorini provenance and, in particular, a correlation with the marine Y-2 tephra that is known from the southern Aegean Sea and eastern Levantine Basin. This tephra represents the distal facies of the Cape Riva eruption of Santorini, which has been dated by 14C on land at 21950 cal. yr BP. Hitherto, the Y-2 tephra has been detected only in marine sediment cores recovered south to southeast of its volcanic source. The new occurrence in the Sea of Marmara approximately 530 km NNE of the Santorini eruptive centre suggests a more north-easterly dispersal of fallout products of the Cape Riva eruption than previously supposed.
S. Wulf, M. Kraml, T. Kuhn,
M. Schwarz, M. Inthorn, J. Keller,
I. Kuscu, and P. Halbach
Do you have any idea of what the VEI was for the Cape Riva event? I have found a similar date 22,000 BP for the huge eruption of Sakara-Jima in Japan which left a caldera around 15 miles in diameter. Pinitubo had a 3 mile diameter crater. There was a major downturn in worldwide temperature around 22,000 BP and these two could certainly have been a cause. There were also several other major down spikes in temperature in the 28K BP to 24K BP. Do you have any likely candidates?
What I hate about this article is the politically correct date. B. C. E. We have lost B. C. (Before Christ) and replaced it with B.C.E. (Before Common Era) Even though Western Culture has become dominate the lefts don’t want to offend anyone. Even those who still live in the 7th century and have contributed nothing to mankind except suicide bombers.
After some research it turns out that “he 'Common Era' - a Secular Term for Year Definition’ is being pushed by ONE crazy guy in Canada. And the lefties have fallen again for stupidity. They are just stuck on stupid.
Nuts. Sorry, Don't think you'll find any volcanic flow under the red sea at the crossing site marked by Solomon. Many problems with your grasp for a "natural" explanation (ei trying to write God out of the picture in favor of something that could be mistaken for "God"). The first and most obvious is that you can't walk on fresh magma flows.. takes quite a while before a person can walk on the unstable surface crust. Tell us, where in the story of the Exodus is the mention of the countless people lost during the crossing due to falling through unstable crust and burning to death? Hmm, guess they missed that part with all the generalizations.. But they do manage to mention the earth opening up and swallowing people at Sainai.. curious, huh. Much later; but, they don't mind mentioning that. Must have been a simple quake, right? (snickering). Delude yourself if you will. Apparently, since these folks recorded what happened and you don't like it, they need "interpreting". It would seem to me they just need to be listened to. But then you'd not sleep at night knowing there is a God out there who dispenses Justice mixed with mercy. The mercy you'd probably not mind.. it's that "justice" thing that gets most of you upset.
I think it is pretty likely the Thera/Santorini was around 1625 BC. There apparently was a start to the vulcanism there about 20 years earlier which caused the people to move before the final cataclysm. I think this period corresponds with the disturbances of the Hyksos period, and the general climate disturbance of the volcano could have driven conquering people into Egypt, perhaps from the middle east.The only eruption on Calliste (another ancient name for the island) attested in ancient sources was circa 200 BC. The supposedly largest-ever-in-historical-times eruption is a 20th century invention.
similar, newer topic, from April 27, 2006 C.E.:
Olive branch solves a Bronze Age mystery
Yahoo/MSNBC (Science) | 3:04 p.m. ET April 27, 2006 | Kathleen Wren
Posted on 04/28/2006 8:59:40 AM EDT by The_Victor
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1623102/posts
This thing was not your normal (run-of-then-mill) volcano. One guy even suggested that it be moved up to 'super-volcano' status.
The Last Glacial Maximum(LGM), was 18-23,000 years ago and was one of the coldest periods during the entire Ice Age. I'm beginning to think it was at this time that the Mongoloid body-type was defined. The oldest (undisputed) Mongoloid skeleton ever found is only 10,000 years old (Oppenheimer)
I've had similar thoughts.
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