Posted on 04/04/2006 1:08:31 PM PDT by bd476
Not quite sure why the US government should apologize for something some idiots are doing. I wouldn't expect the British government to apologize for any of its citizens caught fighting with Taliban/Al Qaeda against US forces in Afghanistan.
True, but I wish Bush would reconsider his softly-softly approach to Sinn Fein/IRA.
Thanks, I signed up. My password is Thouvaquako.......................ROTFLMAO!
WHERE HAVE YOU GONE MAGGIE?
WHERE HAVE YOU GONE RONNIE REAGAN?
Ahh, the good ole' days... pity I'm too young to remember it too well.
Yes... they issue strange passwords over there!!
True, but I would argue there is a league of difference between the collusion by UK chaps who fight the US Forces in Afghanistan/Iraq etc, and the funding that the IRA recieved through various sources, inside and outside the US Government.
But that really by the by, and doesn't add alot to the thread.
BINGO! Especially true if the bombers didn't actually give a rip about Indians at all other than as cover and shared their real goals, money, training and equipment with communist and freelance terrorists worldwide.
The comment was made that the IRA killed more than the Brits. This just defies logic. British occupation of Ireland has been a bloody disaster for the Irish. I didn’t see a time frame mentioned in the post.
No, I don’t hate the Brits. They are our strongest ally in the world, sometimes our only ally. Lady Thatcher remains a personal hero, along side Ronald Regan and John Paul II. I just wish the Brits would end their occupation of Ireland. I do not support the modern IRA, which is a Marxist terrorist organization. I condemn the killing that was the topic of this article. I’m second generation American, my grandparents coming from Ireland
But you must learn history. It was British occupation that created the conditions that allowed the blight to be so devastating.
Here are some excerpts from a couple of sites:
http://www.american.edu/TED/potato.htm
English colonization of Ireland forced the Irish to pay exorbitant rents and taxes, to export their crops, and to increase their dependence on the potato crop. …The primary economic goal of British colonialization was to extract the greatest amount of resources and exports from their colonial holdings to the benefit of the British land-owners…. With the colonialization, a tenure system was introduced into Ireland that gave Protestant landlords control of 95% of the land… the holdings were subdivided and living standards declined. To counter overpopulation, people moved to less fertile areas were the potato was one of the few sources of food that could be grown… Most of these lands were under the ownership of absentee landlords, who wanted to maximize the output with little or no investment into the population. … The British instituted Penal laws, which denied the Irish peasant population freedom. Irish were forbidden: to speak their language, to practice their faith, to attend school, to hold an public office, to hold certain jobs, to own land, or to ". . .own a horse worth more than $10." (22) These Penal laws were enacted to push the Irish into submission by force and inferiority and were justified by the British government
http://www.historyplace.com/worldhistory/famine/index.html
Beginning in 1845 and lasting for six years, the potato famine killed over a million men, women and children in Ireland and caused another million to flee the country… Most of the Irish countryside was owned by an English and Anglo-Irish hereditary ruling class. Mainly Protestant, they held titles to enormous tracts of land long ago confiscated from native Irish Catholics by British conquerors such as Oliver Cromwell. …The landlords often utilized local agents to actually manage their estates while living lavishly in London or in Europe off the rents paid by Catholics for land their ancestors had once owned. Throughout Ireland, Protestants known as middlemen rented large amounts of land on the various estates then sub-divided the land into smaller holdings which they rented to poor Catholic farmers. The middleman system began in the 1700s and became a major source of misery as they kept sub-dividing estates into smaller and smaller parcels while increasing the rent every year in a practice known as rack-renting. …These Catholic farmers were usually considered tenants-at-will and could be evicted on short notice at the whim of the landlord, his agent, or middleman. By law, any improvements they made, such as building a stone house, became the property of the landlord. Thus there was never any incentive to upgrade their living conditions. …By the mid-1800s, the density of Irish living on cultivated land was about 700 people per square mile, among the highest rate in Europe. Potatoes are not native to Ireland … An acre of fertilized potato field could yield up to 12 tons of potatoes, enough to feed a family of six for a year with leftovers going to the family's animals. …
We all know the history of Ireland and the potato famine. Many of the people posting on these threads are Irish after all, including myself. It has absolutely no bearing on the discussion at hand, apart from being bloody patronising. Irish Thatcherite is quite correct in pointing out that the IRA have killed far more people in the present conflict than the security forces. In fact, the IRA have killed far more Northern Irish Catholics than the security forces!
The British occupation of Ireland is not quite right of course. The British occupy half a dozen counties that make up the province of Northern Ireland, something that doesn't quite cover the whole of the Republic. My personal view is that Northern Ireland has a greater chance of becoming an independent state, outside of the UK and the Republic.
I would trust the views of the Irish on this page, after all they are the ones on the ground day in and day out, dealing with the events as they unfold.
As for history, well we can go as far back as you like, but it wont change the events as they are, and "I told you so's" wont help either. The thing we must do now is focus on the present, and find a viable solution that will satisfy all sides.
Shall we Brits say 'sorry' for the famine? What good is that going to do now? I of course know the history of my country and that of my neighbours, far more so than than any non-Irish or British individual, but lamenting over indiscretions hundreds of years back wont solve anything.
How about the 3,000 civilians killed on 911?????????Are you from DU??????????????????
KMA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
1) Disarm
2) Kill this admitted spy
Save your sob story.
I'm descended from Cromwell's Orphans and Huguenots...and I'm Southern....have to listen to Yankee sanctimony 24-7
Anyone can find a reason to whine.
Personally I will take the Brits over the Provos any day.
I ID a bit more with Ulster culturally but try to be fair.
You on the othr hand dismissing all Brits as Terrorists is pretty out of hand.
No read all the thread and my replies before you come out with complete and utter bollox.
My uncles used to call me a plastic Paddy when I was a teenager.
Its someone who says they are Irish but were not born in Ireland.
My family is Irish on my mums side.
When I was a teenager I decided I was Irish, after a holiday at my mums.
My Gran remembered a convoy of the Black and Tans being ambushed outside her house and some of my great uncles were members of the old IRA flying columns.
It gave me a great perspective when I served in North Ireland in that I could see both sides of the troubles and its various causes.
Then it shouldn't be too much trouble for you to admit that the loss of a spy was a calculated risk. In fact, I would expect you to appreciate the one military decision the Provos have made since they became terrorists.
Memories run deep over there.
While eliminating him was not what we would call a political decision, there has always been a wild streak in the various para military/terrorists, with a number of what we term cowboy operations : go it alone without official sanction.
During the height of the troubles mid 70s and again the 80s, a lot of the sectarian killings the tit for tat murders were cowboy operations. carried out by Active Service Units out for revenge with no thought for the bigger picture. i.e sectarian killings did not advance the cause and were in fact had a negative impact on the movement and cause
I would bet money that this was a cowboy operation a revenge/punishment attack
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