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So the mother praying for her dying child doesn't have enough love if the baby dies?

If what you say is true, the very loving and very faithful would NEVER lose a loved one. That's simply not the case.

It's only when the results are not what people want do they claim the study is flawed, or meaningless, or show a misunderstanding of what prayer can or can't do.

The fact is, many people believe intercessory prayer works. This study tried to determine if that is true. There's nothing wrong with that.

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PERHAPS my English was inadequate . . . maybe I was too brief, or something.

I do NOT recall listing all the NECESSARY conditions for effective, favorably answered healing prayer. If I did while on brain fade, please list them again, for me.

IF I had have listed all the NECESSARY conditions for effective, favorably answered healing prayer, I'd have listed first the SOMETIMES --only-- necessary one--God's will.

For whatever flaws Kenneth Hagin may have had--he was a very effective teacher and pray-er re healing and a lot of other prayer needs and problems. However, most of his disciples seem to gloss over a very interesting incident in his ministry.

There was a dear widow--a very Godly, saintly woman who had been a cheer leader of his virtually from the beginning, as I recall. She came down with heart trouble, I think it was. Hagin was told he'd never live very long because of heart trouble as a child so this was close to his . . . uhhhh . . . heart.

Besides that, the woman was a dear woman who believed absolutely the same as Hagin did in the effectiveness of teaching The Word, confessing The Word etc. She lived full of faith. She had prayed successfully for others to be healed.

Hagin came and prayed for her several times.

She got worse.

She died.

This troubled Hagin greatly and he seriously sought God about why--what happened. God VERY FORCEFULLY AND STERNLY REPLIED that it was NONE of Hagin's business AND FURTHER MORE, HAGIN WAS NOT TO BOTHER ABOUT IT OR MENTION IT AGAIN.

Some things are between God and the individual. We don't know what's involved. We just can know that God is ALTOGETHER GOOD; ALTOGETHER LOVING--ESPECIALLY TOWARD HIS CHILDREN--whether it seems that way to our finiteness at the time, from our perspective, or not.

There's the story of the two angels stopping by a couple farm houses. In the first case, the farmer was wealthy with a huge farm. But he showed the angels no grace and put them up in the cold basement with not even a bed. Before the angels left, the Sr angel patched a hole in the basement wall.

At the next farm house, a very, very poor one, the older couple put them up in their own bed and slept on the floor. The next day, the farmer's only cow was dead.

The Jr angel was quite upset. Why had the Sr angel patched the vain, stingy farmer's basement wall and why had he allowed the farmer's only cow to die?

The Sr angel answered that there was gold and jewels hidden in the wall and he patched the wall to keep the evil farmer from finding them. In the case of the poor couple, the angel of death had come in the night for the farmer's wife but accepted the cow instead.

God's ways really are beyond our finding out. Vain people may pontificate ad nauseam about their constructions on God's ways . . . but most of the time . . . such noise is just . . . noise.

When the rain storm was headed up river in the classic pattern--threatening our drying, mown hay--my mother only had time for a brief prayer. The rain fell on four sides of the drying hay but not the hay. Our survival depended on that dry hay.

When mother saw a rare NM twister pick up the tin roofing off our barns and chicken houses and start carrying it toward the very humble adobe mud hut we lived in--she had time only for an even briefer prayer--Oh, "Jesus, Help us!" At about 7 years old, I remember going out and measuring with a ruler as I was a bit incredulous. The tin, on the two sides that threatened the house--was virtually a straight line 1.5" from the house--a sea of tin that had stopped at an invisible line--not a single piece touching the house.

You can deny the power of touching God's heart in prayer if you wish. I can't. I won't.

It's an awesome enough miracle that GOD HAS CHOSEN TO INVITE, ASK, EVEN INSIST, THAT WE SHARE IN THIS BOOT CAMP ADVENTURE WITH HIM VIA PRAYER. What an incredible thing!

But He does NOT march to our script. He is NOT a vending machine. He is NOT our butler. And His ways really are beyond our finding out.

By the same token, He says a lot about His character and His ways in Scripture. We can learn a lot from Scripture and from practicing our walk with Him. But we won't learn near all of it.

It is His Nature, His delight to give good gifts to His kids. But sometimes, what we think would be good would be the worst for us.

There were thousands of deaths with the Tsunami. I have no doubt that the innocent children were immediately in God's Presence and thereby in a far better place than this one. The Tsunami rescued them from the pains and struggles of this life and dimension.

We cannot have LOVE without the genuine, true option to choose NONLOVE with true consequences for each. Choosing NONLOVE as individuals, neighborhoods, communities, States, Nations and as human critters accrues a LOT of consequences--a LOT of suffering whether it's always harvested quickly, or not.

But sooner or later, the universal law of harvesting what's planted will manifest itself. People may deny it; rail against it; pretend it's not true, etc. But sooner or later, it's true.

Christ's Blood, forgiveness; acceptance of same on confession and repentence, turning from darkness to His Light--all that--miraculously can intersect SOME of that reaping what's sown. But often, even the forgiven still experience educational consequences.

I don't know what God has in store for you Bubbatuck. I suspect some interesting educational experiences. You will certainly see things which are inexplicable in the natural--in the REALITY = CHANCE PLUS TIME only construction on reality.

Some of those things will be charades from the dark lord of hell. I pray that God also gives you some contrasting experiences to observe and/or experience from His wealth of Love and care. These are certainly dramatic times and the war between God and evil will become much more dramatic and overt in the coming months and years. You will likely have repeated opportunities to choose yet again. On the other hand, none of us really has a guarantee of living another day in this boot camp.

The mother's Love may not have been sufficient for the situation. God evidently had other priorities. He really does know best.

I don't recall ranting at the study. I merely pointed out a flaw in it's construction and the conclusions drawn. In a lot of respects, it may be a useful one--showing that the prayer of strangers without a genuine loving connection to the focus of the prayers may be less effective. That could be good to know.

So, a loving father would give good directions to his son driving to a distant university. Therefore if the son gets lost and drives off a cliff, the father's love and directions were terrible? I don't think so. Life has lots of other factors that enter into all situations. Only God knows all of them. Only God judges perfectly, righteously amidst, amongst, with all of them.

So I would suggest that some humility in your observations might do you better than the lack of it.