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You must be confusing me with someone else, since FreeRepublic provides a very easy method of checking prior posts, I know I haven't used the word.

You said violation of sovereignty, same thing. But fair enough, I did confuse you with someone else.

But fine, they're invaders.

So this includes the turtle smuggler? And which of the four options are you claiming applies.

Now as to reduced costs, just because you and your family aren't getting the benefits, doesn't mean they aren't there for the country. Are you disputing that immigrants do the same labor at severely reduced price?

As for taxes we do have a war on our hands. And we do have a problem with the growing amound of Social Security and Medicare costs due to a larger proportion of the population being retired. This problem will get far worse in the future, which brings us to the need to bring in more younger workers.

And what does this nation gain from the five billion in cash sent out of the country?

It gains nothing, but allowing the workers to become citizens and bring in their families will solve that problem...*time for me to put on an extra pair of flame retarding underwear*

If I drive my car at speed across the border with Mexico...

Mexico has different laws to suit different problems. They have a surplus of labor we have a deficit, so there's more pressure for keeping foreigners out.

As for the gain, unlike Europe and Japan we get demographics which aren't diproportionately filled with greedy aging geezers; who's primary concern when voting is with getting the biggest check from the government. If you think your taxes are bad due to healthcare for illegals, wait until that bomb goes off.

It gains nothing, but allowing the workers to become citizens and bring in their families will solve that problem...

Allowing? Is there anything that prevents someone from applying to become a citizen, aside from their present illegal actions? Nearly a million immigrants a year become US citizens. Out of the six million who were eligible for Reagan's amnesty, less than half took advantage of it. More than half of them, for less than the cost of a monthly car payment, or three months of insurance, or a quarter of the average mortgage, couldn't be bothered to apply for citizenship.

Does that not explicitly demonstrate that there is a huge population here, of no less than three million, who have lived here since Reagan gave them amnesty, who have zero interest in becoming citizens?

Your solution has been proved to be ineffective in converting even a majority to seek citizenship. What will we get out of this round? A forty percent conversion rate? While millions around the world who want to come here legally and become citizens are denied because our system is choked processing applications from those who are only in the system from a criminal act of their own making?

The only net gain I see here is from government employment - we'd have to hire the equivalent of a the workers hired for the census simply to process the applications and perform even the most basic background checks.

As for taxes we do have a war on our hands.

Fine, excuse 140 billion of the federal budget for each of the last five years. That total is 700 billion. Over the last four years, the national debt has increased by 1.4 trillion dollars, double the amount for the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, and completely discounting any debt from 2001 and 2002, as one could make the argument that economic changes during those years to compensate for the end of the dot com boom and the terrorist attacks accounts for any deficit for those years.

We're 700 billion in the hole with all this grand infusion of low cost workers, the equivalent of waging another pair of wars of the scale of those in Iraq and Afghanistan. Educating the children of illegals, themselves mostly legal citizens by virtue of their parents illegal actions, meanwhile, has cost 243 billion over the past five years just for primary education. To offer one in a hundred of them the opportunity to go to college will require the building of twelve new universities, 48 state colleges, and a 162 community colleges. But gosh, cleaning tables in restaurants is sure cheaper.