Minutemen Protest In Costa Mesa (pics) ACLU Meeting to Help Illegals

I did answer the question - as I posted above, I really can't type that fast while watching for spelling too ; )

Ask those posters. I don't have an opinion on a moratorium. I am, however, 100% against illegal immigration. If we have to halt legal immigration to get a handle on the illegals flooding our systems, then that option should remain a viable option.

Which still doesn't make one anti-immigrant in any way shape or form.

If you are a "vigilante" then I will gladly include you in the "mob" - note that is not a personal attack - you are asking to be included. As for the car wash, I would have to guess it would be more profitable in the long run, but I'm sure many car wash owners who employ illegals are focused more on the short run. Maybe if you get that 100-year "temporary" moratorium on ALL immigration, then they will have to start thinking long-term.

You're the one to call "Bull sh*t" - so I just named just a few who "want all immigration stopped" - do I at least get an apology?

Still, so?

A recession is when you lose your job.

A depression is when I lose my job.

Why should someone that broke the law upon coming into this country without permission be aforded the ability to come here even if they are sent home first?

Incentive to come here legally and stop coming here Illegaly rests,in part, with deterrant. Saying that if you come here Illegally....you will never be given permission to be here legally is a great place to start.

I did not offer a personal attack, I offered a judgement based on your posts and commented on I how i feel about it.

You clearly said that you wanted to see Illegal immigrants be granted a path to citizenship. That sir, is rewarding bad behavior. How can you say it is anything but that?

I would ask you to lay out what you see as viable punishment for coming inside this nation without permission. The only thing I see you offer is to ask them to go home and then let them come back on a path to citizenship. I am having trouble seeing what enforcment you support of the law you claim to have studied.

Are you just trying to be funny then? For the record, a recession is defined by economists to be a consecutive period of two quarters of negative GDP growth. A depression is four quarters.

The claim of recession is a straw man. You can make claims as to what you think will happen but you cannot produce any real evidence to support that.

Americans can care for ourselves and saying we cannot is indeed the very kind of attacks you say you do not partake in.

Are you seriously of the position that the
USA, or its economy cannot survive
without illegal aliens? C'mon now.

I really can't type that fast while watching for spelling too I bet that made writing assignments in all those years in law school very difficult huh? ;)~

As I recall, you are zealous about deporting the Salvadorans who are here legally, but you think they have been here to long.

Wrong again. I'm against the TPS program. It's BS.

In fact, many here say that they are opposed only to illegals, but in reality, they are not.

Now your a mind reading.

I challenge you to start a thread on the H2B visa quota increase that is coming up for renewal and being currently discussed in Congress. I can predict that the replies will be overwhelmingly opposed.

Just because a poster does not want an increase in guest worker visas does not mean the poster wants all non-immigrants deported. I don't want the numbers increased either, but I don't want those that are already legally here to be thrown out. IMO, we don't need any more guest worker and no one has proved we do.

Like most, you trot out the mantra of automation/mechinization. The reality is that the US is not backward in farming techniques. The reality is that you know nothing about automation, farming, or capital investments.

No, the fact is, your speaking out the side of your mouth.

According to University of California, Davis, agricultural economist Philip Martin, farmers and hired workers who are American citizens do almost 80 percent of the nation's farm work. And even in those perishable crops where immigrant farm workers dominate, labor costs account for less than 10 percent of the retail price of produce. So a doubling of wages in those sectors would translate to less than a 10 percent increase in certain supermarket produce prices.

What's more, ending the growers' nearly endless supply of cheap, docile labor will spur automation and innovation. The result may actually be a decrease in the prices of certain products. For instance, growers in California testified in the early 1960s that ''the use of braceros is absolutely essential to the survival of the tomato industry.'' When the Bracero Program was eliminated anyway, the rate of mechanization increased, helping tomato production quadruple between 1960 and 1990 and leading to a drop in the price of ketchup and similar products.

There are alternatives to guest workers. Take the case of harvesting raisins, the single most labor-intensive activity in North America. Some 40,000 to 50,000 workers are hired each August-September to cut bunches of green grapes and lay them on paper trays to dry in the sun, producing sun-dried raisins. There is a labor shortage every year, as farmers wait as long as possible to raise the sugar content of their grapes, and then worry that the grapes will be rained on while they lie in the sun to dry. What is the alternative to paying workers, most of whom are unauthorized, 20 to 22 cents for each 25 pounds of grapes that are cut and laid on trays to dry? The cooperative that handles about one-third of the U.S. raisin crop, Sun Maid, has developed a dried-on-the-vine harvesting system that eliminates the need for an army of harvest workers. The grapes are trained to grow on the south or sunny side of vineyards that are planed in an east-west direction, the canes on which bunches of grapes are grown are cut by machine, the grapes dry into raisins while attached to the vine, and then the raisins are harvested by machine. New raisin-grape plantings are designed for machine harvesting. But there are few new raisin plantings, largely because Turkey and other countries have greatly increased raisin production and because they can produce raisins more cheaply than California growers. Thus, one way to think about importing guest workers for the raisin industry is that, faced with low prices brought about by increased world competition, guest workers allow employers to maximize their variable costs — if prices drop too low, raisins are simply not harvested. Many raisin grapes were not harvested in 2000 and growers will be paid to bulldoze or prune to eliminate about one-fourth of the 2001 crop because of low prices. Importing guest workers — some of whom will settle — in such a situation is analogous to importing mine workers just before the ore runs out.

Sorry Ben, it's you that knows nothing about automation, farming, or capital investments.

Perhaps I should alert the Moderators and find out if "Someday lawyers coming out of lawschool will actually give a care about the law, it sure seems you do not!" qualifies as a personal attack or not?

I really have to get going, but I'll try to answer your questions. Politics is the art of compromise, so I have no problem if illegals have to go home first, or stay here, to become citizens. Why should they be allowed to do so? I guess the best reason I have is the economic one (since seperation of church and state today disallows my real reason). We "reward" lots of worse behavior all the time in this society - come talk to me about illegal immigrants who are just trying to survive and make a better place for their families after you outlaw abortion, birth control, divorce, gambling, pornography, sex outside marriage, and every other WORSE behavior.

Of course, we will survive. The USA "survived" the Great Depression too. If you KNEW that would be the result, though, wouldn't you try to avoid another one?

It was only three years, at least.

They're trying to destroy America.

Establishing cause for the arrest of a suspected illegal alien, is more easy than you think. I could do it to 50 illegals, in 30 minutes.

Oh, really? Show us how it's done, then.

I could effect a citizens arrest on that group, then turn them over to the custody of local police, or to the California Highway Patrol (State Police), for processing.

And if I were the OPFOR, I would have a bunch of Latinos "troll" past you as illegals...only to produce proof of citizenship for the cops, whereupon you have an open-and-shut case of false arrest, and you will have "hugh and series" legal troubles that could very well stune your beeber.

The laws are on my side of the argument, and I welcome MALDEF, to press a lawsuit, because, I would love to counter sue them.

Just make sure you own or control no assets prior to doing this.

Quite a few posters here at FR want all immigration stopped (LEGAL and illegal).

There is a big difference between stopping all immigration and deporting all legal immigrants, as Ben stated.

I don't know how many want actual legal immigrants in the country deported, but many want United States citizens, born IN THIS COUNTRY, deported.

I'm all for deporting Kerry, Hilary and those like them. That said, everyone who has said that, including my self, knows that will never happen and it's said in anger and frustration at these idiots. Also, I'd bet that if a law that allowed for the deportation of US Citizens every came before Congress, not one of the people that claimed they want US Citizens deported would ever support it.

People say allot of things off the cuff, that they don't truly mean.

People say alot of things off the cuff, that they don't truly mean.

Oh, O.K.

If this is true, you could make a killing in agriculture. I can guareentee that there are plenty of freeper investors that would back you. None of the US farmers know what they are doing.

BTW, did you know that your apple juice is imported from China?

"If you were a real American and a true conservative, you wouldn't limit your boycot to this one taco stand."

And if you were a real American and true conservative you wouldn't be pro-illegal alien and an apologist and enabler for the illegal alien law breakers streaming across the border by the thousands.

Clean up Texas before you try to lecture the people in California on what they should do about illegal aliens. We don't need your sanctimonious sniping around here.

Did you ever think about leaving California for Canada?