Some Teachers Say Merit Pay Plan Is a Bitter Apple [FL E-Comp Plan]

The Ledger ^ | March 15, 2006 | Julia Crouse

[summer]

WINTER HAVEN -- The modern reality of teaching in Florida schools makes Bess Lott, a 32-year veteran, wonder whether she'd choose teaching as a career if she had it to do over.

Constant paperwork, comparatively low pay and FCAT pressure are all headaches, said the third-grade teacher at Winter Haven's Snively Elementary School of Choice.

But e-comp, the Department of Education's performance pay proposal, is the final straw, she said.

"They're talking about our salaries," she said....

[volchef]

All I can tell you is what my daughters friends tell me. Their teachers basically hand them informational packets, kind of like SAT prep packets and just do those for weeks and months at a time.

[Dinsdale]

No everything I learned in High School was not on the SAT.

But if nobody knows exactly what is on the test this year you just have to cover everything. (Truth be told I knew there was no advanced material in the SAT.)

Nothing is perfect but it's far better then not testing.

If the teachers see the tests first this will be a big problem. If on the other hand the teachers know the students will need to solve a quadratic and wright a thesis paragraph I'm fine with it.

Teaching to a good test is just teaching.

[SuzyQue]

Hmmm. What kind of information do they learn from these packets? I'm guessing it would have to be the subject content?

[volchef]

I guess I just have a different take on what constitutes real learning. To me it's not doing workbooks over and over. To me it's being able to see the reasons behind the answer. Why is it that answer correct. Too many kids in public schools have no ability to analyze situations because they are memorizing materials instead of actually learning why. How many 2nd graders really know why 12x12 is 144 as opposed to just having memorized the tables.

Life is not a textbook (and thank goodness I've never seen a horse is to saddle as ox is to _______ question in my adulthood experience) and I prefer that my kids learn to think outside of the box so that one day hopefully they can solve complex problems. But hey, that's just me. If you think it's a good idea to do test packets all day that's fine with me. That's why I support educational choice in this country.

[TChris]

Tell me, did everything you learn in highschool get included in the SAT? ACT?

No, but if you read the article, their solution provides for that. Teachers of non-core subjects are judged by the school board for performance. I have no problem with that either. They are then accountable to people elected to run the school district.

I guess this makes teaching really easy, just follow the leasson plan that the testmakers will map out and you've put yourself into the fast track for teacher of the year.

Nope, it isn't easy. If it was, the ineffective tenured teachers currently pervading the system would do just fine. For my hard-earned tax dollars, I want teachers who can actually teach. I want the rest to have a fire lit under their lazy butts to start producing -- teaching their students effectively -- or find another line of work.

Dedicated, results-oriented teachers have nothing to fear from such a system, tenured or not. And that's the real point: changing the system from an incentive for simple longevity to an incentive for results. Without that incentive, the results will always suffer.

[summer]

When I was finally convinced (10 years ago) that my son's education was more important than a new car or vacation

Unfortunately, not everyone thinks that way. And the culture doesn't help. It would be great if kids had academic game shows in prime time and if other people, like scientists, etc., were also regarded as celebrities worthy of more tv face time. Constantly focusing on superstar actors, athletes and singers does not send the best message to kids. (Or parents.)

[stacytec]

Call me a skeptic, but I have difficulty envisioning good teaching (or anything good) as the outcome of this program. I see kids with personalities like mine skipping class and going to McDonalds when that teacher concerned about how well we master quadratics goes through it for the 700th time in order to get that pay raise. Some see it as measuring success, I see it as a guarantee for marginalized teaching methods and removing the motivation for good teachers to expand their lesson plan beyond the "standard". As the previous poster mentioned, every good teacher I had helped expand the material to practical, real word applications. Its one thing to spit back an answer to a cross multiplication question, but can you use that skill to find how many more hits you'll need to bat .350 in a game? I try to imagine what it would be like if those same teachers who helped me develop that type of thinking would have instead abandon their effort in order to make sure I could score 2 more questions correctly on the test. Abstract thinking and life skill thinking aren't in lesson plans, but good teachers help students develop those skills. I don't know if that is something you can easily measure, but you realize later on in life that it made the difference between true retention and use-for-the-test-and-forget learning.

[summer]

Teachers with a lot of years in the system are not doing so badly -- some NY teachers, with 20 years in, now make over $100K per year. And, they don't need any 2nd job at ther GAP. They probably don't care too much about a $2,000 bonus, either. But for new teachers making $25,000 in some places (and, yes, some teachers are still paid that little). they are having a tough time.

[summer]

Re your post #20 - There are school districts in FL that have bought huge district office buildings, only to rent them out later, not kinowing what to do with all the space. In the district where I reside, there is marble flooring and countertops in the admin center, while teachers are still teaching in portables. And that's not the state's fault -- that's the fault of stupid adminiistrators whose priorities do not include teachers and kids as being the most imporant elements in a school system. But don't worry, those adminiistrators are already making their 6-figure salaries, so they need all the extra comfort they can get in their office space. And what do these people do? No one knows. The teachers only know they never see these people in the schools.

[summer]

Re your post #21 - I agree with your entire post. Thanks for your thoughtful comments.

[summer]

RE your post 312 - My pleasure and thanks for your comments here, SoftballMominVa. :)

[summer]

Re your post #22 - Very good idea. And, that would save teachers a ton of money.

[summer]

Re your post #23 - Well, how about this true scenario: a teacher agrees to be the supervisor for a student teacher. The student teacher is in her 3rd internship, which means she is responsible for everything that happens in that classroom for a semester. The next semester, the FCATS are given and the students score skky high, thanks to the innovative, hard-working student teacher who busted her *ss 24 hours a day for a semester. Now, who gets the $2,000 bonus? The older teacher who did nothing for a semester -- not the student teacher, who had to give up her paying job to take this final, required student internship to graduate. Is that fair?

[summer]

PS BTW, here's what the student teacher earned that semester: $0. Nothing.

[summer]

There are incompetent teachers to be sure, I am positive that my daughter is not one of them, she is a frustrated teacher.

I think there's a lot of frustrated teachers these days.

And, you're right; not all teachers are liberal. In fact, I often think many teachers are more conservative than they themselves acknowledge. Thanks for your post.

[summer]

I don't think every teacher's life is "cake and ice cream" though you might find some in that category.

[summer]

the average salary is over 48-thousand a year in that school district.

The "average" salary always takes into account those teachers on the highest end of the scale. People should look closer at what new teachers make.

[summer]

which would direct teaching talent were public education most needs it, at under-performing students.

No, I don't think experienced, higher paid teachers at affluent, white schools will run over to the worst schools in a district in order to perhaps get students to show more "improvement" (and earn a $2,000 bonus). Many teachers leave the public school system entirely to teach in private schools where the pay is LOWER but the quality of the student (and parent) is higher.

[summer]

Any other accessment could be political.

That's true. If you want to give some teachers more money, for say, doing X,Y, and Z, it is often predetermined which teachers are ALLOWED to do x,ty, and z, thereby denying many other willing teachers from obtaining that potential extra money. And, local education is more political than any field I've ever experienced. If you are not one for local politics, stay out of local education!!! (I think that is VERY good advice!)

[summer]

Students rate based on easiness. Did you ever look at ratemyteacher.com?

When you explain to the students ahead of time what the rating categories will be (teacher speaks clearly, teacher is fair, etc.) then, overall, most kids are amazingly fair. I don't know why all teachers don't do this, just to gain imprtant feedback from their students.