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Evolving doors: Students say they wouldn’t mind hearing both sides (Re Intelligent Design)
AP via News/Tribune ^ | 3-14-06 | kyle lowry

Posted on 03/14/2006 10:49:13 AM PST by LouAvul

Intelligent design theory is creating quite a stir.

Most recently Kentucky Gov. Ernie Fletcher said he supported school boards teaching Intelligent Design. In December, a Pennsylvania judge ruled against a Dover Township school board decision to include the theory in text books, costing the taxpayers about a million dollars in legal fees. Movements to begin teaching the intelligent design theory have popped up in dozens of states forcing local legislators and courts to address the issue.

The concept is simple: Were humans created by some sort of intelligent designer, possibly a deity, or by did we evolve scientifically based on Charles Darwin’s theories of natural selection?

However, as parents, school boards and taxpayers debate the larger issue, students locally have shared some interesting views.

Clarksville High School junior Kyle Banks is a member of Morton Memorial United Methodist Church and said he believes God created the world and its inhabitants, but has adapted to the idea of keeping his church beliefs separate from his schoolwork.

“I don’t necessarily agree with (evolution), but I don’t mind it, as long as they teach it as a theory,” Banks said.

Indiana’s educational standards concerning evolution were developed five years ago by a 60-person committee made up of teachers, scientists, administrators and parents.

In the ninth grade, students are taught how living things function in their environment through laboratory and field work, according to information from the Indiana Department of Education. The goal is to help students recognize that living organisms are made of cell or cell products that consist of the same parts as other matter, involve the same kinds of transformations of energy and move using the same kinds of basic forces.

“It’s based on getting a logical idea and testing the hypothesis,” said David Winship Taylor, head of biology at Indiana University Southeast in New Albany, who has expertise in the area of evolutionary botany. “We know we have genetic variations and changes in genetic variation — and we have time.”

Students interviewed for this story came from extreme religious to agnostic backgrounds and each one said they looked at learning evolution as just another one of their academic requirements. With the exception of Banks, all were open to the idea of adding intelligent design to classroom discussion.

“If we have a problem with evolution, we could go into the hallway or office,” said Quincy Jones, a New Albany High School senior.

During his ninth grade study of evolution, Jones couldn’t remember one student leaving the classroom for personal reasons related to the topic.

“It wasn’t forced upon us, we just went over theory,” added NAHS sophomore Stephanie Medley.

A local youth minister supports the idea of teaching the competing theories.

“I think the students would benefit from hearing both sides of the story,” said Chris Tanner, a youth minister at Georgetown Christian Church. “You can teach it without saying it’s a God to who you’re held accountable. You could just say ‘a creator.’”

Matt Holloway, a Clarksville High School junior and also a member of Morton Memorial, has come up with his own hybrid belief that blended the ideas of evolution and religion.

“I probably have a different belief than most people,” Holloway said. “I view it as evolution and creation can co-exist.

“I believe in God and that he created all humans and if he wanted to create humans that could evolve, he could do that.”

Clarksville High School Science Teacher Sherri Abromavage said sensitivity is still a factor when discussing evolution.

“We’re just seeing how science explains some of the questions we have,” Abromavage said.

To date, she said she has never had a student not complete the evolution portion on her biology class because they were uncomfortable with the theory.

“Once they realize they’re not expected to give up their personal beliefs, they’re fine,” Abromavage said.

However, there are a few schools within Clark and Floyd counties where God and science are on the same syllabus.

“We teach the principles behind evolution and we include the means of origins, the origin of that idea and why scientists believe that,” said Tim Ferree, assistant principal and former science teacher at Christian Academy in New Albany. “We teach is the biblical record of origins.”

It makes for more well-rounded students to present them with all the information, Ferree said.

“Both ideas of how we got here are accepted by many different people and an educated person has to know all the ideas,” Ferree said. “There’s going to be some overlap in some areas and you have to open your eyes to that. “We shouldn’t be afraid to take a look at different types of origins.”

However, as far as teaching creationism in public schools, the U.S. Supreme Court has made its position quite clear.

“Evolution is a scientific fact and the problem one has when one teaches something besides evolution is you’re going to be teaching opinion, and usually a religious opinion, and that raises first amendment concerns,” said Ken Falk, legal director of the American Civil Liberties Union of Indiana.

In Kentucky, the word “evolution” was recently deleted from guidelines of what Kentucky public school students should know and be tested on when officials from the state education department substituted the phrase ”change over time” for evolution.

Deputy Commissioner Gene Wilhoit said he and other Kentucky state department officials saw no need to keep the word evolution in the guidelines for high school and middle school students.

“The word is a lightning rod that creates a diversion from what we’re teaching, and we did not want to advocate a particular doctrine or a specific view,” Wilhoit said.

It seems this kind of creative editing is spreading throughout the country.

In August, the Kansas Board of Education also garnered attention when it adopted new testing standards that play down the scientific importance of evolution.

Kentucky biology teacher Ken Rosenbaum said these types of decisions will discourage schools from covering the topic.

“A lot of teachers are upset about this,” said Rosenbaum, who is also director of the Kentucky Science Teachers Association. “They know it was done for political reasons. It’s either a scientific theory or it’s not. Why don’t we just stop calling the sunrise the sunrise?”


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: apeignorance; atheistapeattack; atheistapesrule; atheisticevolvingape; atheisticpondscum; creatard; crevolist; drapeknowsall; evoapelike; evoapeorgy; evolutionapologetics; idiocy; ignoranceisstrength; monkeymenwillattack; scienceeducation
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To: CarolinaGuitarman
How did DNA begin? I want the fact of evolution that explains it--not the theory.
61 posted on 03/15/2006 4:02:06 PM PST by JCEccles
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To: JCEccles
"How did DNA begin? I want the fact of evolution that explains it--not the theory."

Evolution has never claimed to explain the origins of DNA, You need to look at abiogenesis for that.
62 posted on 03/15/2006 4:03:17 PM PST by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is grandeur in this view of life...")
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To: CarolinaGuitarman
So you agree that evolution isn't a fact?

Checkmate, chump.

63 posted on 03/15/2006 4:04:46 PM PST by JCEccles
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To: JCEccles

"o you agree that evolution isn't a fact?"

Um, no. Nothing I said even implies that. Chump.


64 posted on 03/15/2006 4:06:03 PM PST by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is grandeur in this view of life...")
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To: LouAvul
"Evolving doors: Students say they wouldn’t mind hearing both sides (Re Intelligent Design"

I can sympathize with that, but am not convinced that the inmates should be running the asylum.

65 posted on 03/15/2006 4:08:11 PM PST by Sam Cree (absolute reality) - ("Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one." Albert Einstein)
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To: LouAvul
Were humans created by some sort of intelligent designer, possibly a deity, or by did we evolve scientifically

A sizeable fraction believe that humans were created by another race of beings from another planet. We haven't yet begun to evolve scientifically, although with genetic engineering and cloning this may be about to start.

66 posted on 03/15/2006 4:11:44 PM PST by RightWhale (pas de lieu, Rhone que nous)
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Darwinists can't begin to explain the origins of DNA, but without understanding that, they cannot begin to prove their thesis. DNA (and RNA) is everything. All life goes back to that fundamental question. And how did it happen in just a few billion years?

All they can do is scratch their heads and say, "Well, it must have happened, because we're here.'

Nice cogitating, Sherlock.

The darwinian faith claims remind me of the old Steve Martin routine, "How to be a millionaire and not pay taxes. First, get a million dollars . . . ."

They understand the "not pay taxes part" but they gloss over the "getting" part as if it were the least important question of all.

They are comical beyond belief. Or at least they would be if they weren't so successful in using the state to terrorize others and to shove their quasi-religious orthodoxy and and rabidly materialist BS down everyone else's throat.

67 posted on 03/15/2006 4:19:43 PM PST by JCEccles
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To: CarolinaGuitarman
You can do what?

You're rambling.

68 posted on 03/15/2006 4:20:57 PM PST by LouAvul
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To: JCEccles
"Darwinists can't begin to explain the origins of DNA..."

It's always been outside the theory. Germ theory doesn't explain the origins of germs; is it wrong?

"DNA (and RNA) is everything."

Evolutionary theory begins with the first imperfectly self-replicating organism. It cares not a wit about how it got there.

"Or at least they would be if they weren't so successful in using the state to terrorize others and to shove their quasi-religious orthodoxy and and rabidly materialist BS down everyone else's throat."

Words from a man who has lost the battle. Especially when he pings his post to... nobody.
69 posted on 03/15/2006 4:23:48 PM PST by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is grandeur in this view of life...")
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To: LouAvul

"You can do what?"

Provide evidence for evolution. You can't for creationism.

" You're rambling."

Only if you're illiterate.


70 posted on 03/15/2006 4:24:48 PM PST by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is grandeur in this view of life...")
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To: CarolinaGuitarman; JCEccles
"So you agree that evolution isn't a fact?"

Um, no. Nothing I said even implies that..

Checkmate. You're dancing around the issue. Produce the scientific, reproducible evidence that prooves atheistic evolution is a fact.

71 posted on 03/15/2006 4:26:25 PM PST by LouAvul
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To: LouAvul
" Checkmate."

We're not playing chess.

"You're dancing around the issue. Produce the scientific, reproducible evidence that prooves atheistic evolution is a fact."

There is no such thing as atheistic evolution.
72 posted on 03/15/2006 4:27:35 PM PST by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is grandeur in this view of life...")
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To: JCEccles; LouAvul
They say there is is no such thing as 'atheistic evolution' but all of their answers point to concepts as 'abiogenesis' and 'imperfect self replicator'

The whole cult and its adherents are dishonest to the core, no admission required from them for this observation.

Wolf
73 posted on 03/15/2006 5:34:58 PM PST by RunningWolf (Vet US Army Air Cav 1975)
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To: RunningWolf
"They say there is is no such thing as 'atheistic evolution' but all of their answers point to concepts as 'abiogenesis' and 'imperfect self replicator'"

Please explain how an imperfect self replicator is in any way atheistic. This should be good. :)
74 posted on 03/15/2006 5:40:37 PM PST by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is grandeur in this view of life...")
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To: CarolinaGuitarman
Demanding sort the evos are, especially juxtaposed with the answers that do not meet muster, or instead they just flat run away from and bolt from the thread.

The threads are replete with the real and documented evidence.

Wolf
75 posted on 03/15/2006 6:14:18 PM PST by RunningWolf (Vet US Army Air Cav 1975)
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To: RunningWolf
"Demanding sort the evos are, especially juxtaposed with the answers that do not meet muster, or instead they just flat run away from and bolt from the thread.

The threads are replete with the real and documented evidence."

I'll accept that as, "I have no idea how the concept of an imperfect self-replicator has anything to do with atheism."

Your inability to even try to answer is noticed and noted, Mordo.
76 posted on 03/15/2006 6:18:29 PM PST by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is grandeur in this view of life...")
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To: Clemenza

If you want to come right down to it, the creation of the universe has never been observed, and neither has macro-evolution. Neither meet the criteria of being observable and therefore fall outside the field of science.


77 posted on 03/15/2006 7:28:33 PM PST by conservative_crusader (The voice of truth, tells me a different story. The voice of truth says do not be afraid.)
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To: Ol' Dan Tucker
Most religions agree on the point of there being a creator. Genesis won't be entering the curricula of public schools any time soon. What needs to be in public schools is the idea pertaining to the possible existence of some sort of designer. I have no quarrel with people claiming that the explanation of the universe is purely material. I just don't accept it. Respect my beliefs that there is a creator and I will respect yours that there is not. If you want to argue about it, shoot, just don't expect me to give up thirty seconds into the discussion.
78 posted on 03/15/2006 7:33:25 PM PST by conservative_crusader (The voice of truth, tells me a different story. The voice of truth says do not be afraid.)
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To: conservative_crusader; Physicist; jennyp
Oh boy. Now the nuts want to pull differential calculus from our the schools because infinitesmals are not observable!

Only integral calculus from now on -- is that what you really want??!!

I want my kids to learn both sides! That's the honest way!

79 posted on 03/15/2006 7:34:10 PM PST by bvw
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To: bvw

Okay... time for a challenge: invent a time machine and observe creation and macro-evolution. Bring back evidence.


80 posted on 03/15/2006 7:37:12 PM PST by conservative_crusader (The voice of truth, tells me a different story. The voice of truth says do not be afraid.)
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