NJ: Federal court should rescind smoking ban

United Pro Smoker's Newsletter ^ | March 9, 2006

[SheLion]

This will never work. It makes too much sense

Hey!  I agree with you!  Makes too much sense to the dweebs. 

[Wheee The People]

In my area, it's the conservative Republicans who want the smoking bans

There are many, many conservatives that support smoking bans. The evidence shows conservatives in Washington and Florida voted for smoking bans. Free people, freely voting. A lot of conservatives on FR support bans. We don't bother to express our views very often, but we're here.

[SheLion]

Ultimately, though, I suspect these bans have little to do with harm and a lot to do with convenience. No one is really that afraid of cigarette smoke, they just want to be able to go into any restaurant they want and have it cater to their wishes. Sad, really.

You are totally on mark here.  Take New Jersey.  The anti's banned smoking in all restaurants and bars, BUT left smoking in the casino's.  Pretty funny, isn't it?

They say "To protect the health of the workers."  Well, what are the workers in a casino's?  ROBOTS???

The damn New Jersey lawmakers want to protect all that greedy money flowing into the state FROM the casino.  As long as the bans work for them, they are all good. 

[SheLion]

The evidence shows conservatives in Washington and Florida voted for smoking bans. Free people, freely voting. A lot of conservatives on FR support bans. We don't bother to express our views very often, but we're here.

Florida passed with less than 20% of registered voters caring enough to show up to vote on the ban.
13% voted for and won.
80% of Floridians didn't care.

Actually, if people would start getting menu's from these restaurants before the bans, then get menu's after the bans are implemented, it would help.
In Florida prices increased 15-20% in many of the chain restaurants within a couple of weeks. I wouldn't have caught it if we hadn't had take out menus before and after to compare.
Our non smoking friends were furious. They boycotted them on principal. And continue to. We now just gather in each others homes.
Outback Steakhouse had probably the largest increase.
Seems odd, to jack prices like that, when all these people claim how much better business is after the bans.
The smaller places that only sell limited food to be able to cater to smokers, had no increases at all.
I think if more of the public really understood what the "clean air" that they didn't care about anyway is costing them, attitudes may change.

[gondramB]

"What's the matter with you!"

What's the matter with me is that I don't want smoke sprayed on me any more than i want beer sprayed on me. If beer drinkers routinely got beer in my hair and on my clothes then I would want them to take their beer drinking private but they don't so I don't mind beer drinkers.

[gondramB]

"A lot of conservatives on FR support bans. We don't bother to express our views very often, but we're here."

I would have said that I have never met a conservative who want smoking banned but then many of my conservative friends have a libertarian side.

[mysterio]

but places of public accomodation are different when you operate such a business you incur responsiblity to not harm the people who come in.

Bars are privately owned. They are private property. If you truly think they are public, break into one after it is locked up for the night. You will be charged with trespassing/breaking and entering on private property.

A taxpayer/government owned bar would be public property.

[gondramB]

Place of public accomodation is a legal term. When private property becomes a place of public accomodation certain obligations are incurred for the safety and welfare of the public.


Private owners who don't want that don't have to become places of public accomodation.

[mysterio]

And people who don't want to smell smoke can avoid the private property of those who allow it with absolute ease.

[SheLion]

What's the matter with me is that I don't want smoke sprayed on me any more than i want beer sprayed on me. If beer drinkers routinely got beer in my hair and on my clothes then I would want them to take their beer drinking private but they don't so I don't mind beer drinkers.

Well, we are all about protecting the rights of private business owners.  If you do not want to be around smokers, then you will have to stay home.  There are 50-55 million of us in the United States and most of us aren't going anywhere.

And when you see smokers huddled together outside smoking, don't think it was their idea to do so.  But the ANTI-smokers.  All was working great before the anti's came alone.

And all businesses that allow smoking today should have the big smoke eaters in place.  No more old smoky rooms.

Clean air for all. 

[jerry639]

Why don't we change things around and have small rooms for non-smokers and smokers can smoke anywhere they like.
Then watch as they start screaming discrimination. Then we turn a deaf ear to them like they have to smokers who want their rights.

[Wheee The People]

I would have said that I have never met a conservative who want smoking banned

Well much of it comes from the social branch of the conservative movement. Think about church groups for example. Social conservatives make up a segment of FR. Newt said the following

Civilization cannot survive with twelve-year-olds having babies, fifteen-year-olds shooting one another, seventeen-year-olds dying of AIDS, and eighteen-year-olds graduating with diplomas they cannot read.

I and other social conservatives (but not Newt) would add smoking to the above list of social ills.

[SheLion]

Why don't we change things around and have small rooms for non-smokers and smokers can smoke anywhere they like.
Then watch as they start screaming discrimination. Then we turn a deaf ear to them like they have to smokers who want their rights.

Jerry, I just shake my head over this and the anti's in FR that support so much government intervention.  I sure wasn't brought up thinking that this is how the Republican party works.  Never! 

[Publius6961]

Hear! Hear!

[Publius6961]

Yesterday I got a tax bill from NJ Treasury for $238 in taxes! Have you ever heard of this? Do I have to pay it?

If you live in New Jersey, you bet!
Do you not live or work in New Jersey? Then make them extradite you.

Not too smart, are you.

[SheLion]

Hear! Hear!

Yes!

[Bogey]

I completely support people's right to smoke. I'm not even sure it should be age limited. But they don't have any right to get their smoke on other people. They can smoke all they want in their homes but public spaces need to be smoke free.

---

We'll smoke at home, when you start driving in your house.
You have no right to spew your exhaust in peoples faces.
Restaurants are private, the streets are PUBLIC.

PHYSICIAN TESTIFIES IN SUPPORT OF ZEV PROGRAM AT AIR RESOURCES BOARD HEARING
As local resolutions and letters of support continue flowing in from across the state, Los Angeles emergency room physician and specialist in sports medicine will testify September 7 before the Air Resources Board (ARB) in support of the state's ZEV requirements. Dr. Eric Sletten takes the train from his home in Ventura County and then rides a bicycle to his office at Cal State Northridge. Dr. Sletten emphasizes however, that he is not anti-car, and in fact owns two classic cars that he drives recreationally. He grew up in the San Fernando Valley and recalls frequent smog alerts that restricted activities and caused coughing and pain from simply taking a deep breath.

In testifying on behalf of the American Lung Association of California and its medical section, the California Thoracic Society, Dr. Sletten calls on the state to provide leadership in addressing the health concerns caused by California's addiction to gasoline. Dr. Sletten describes health impacts from gasoline vehicles, including reduction in lung function and lung tissue damage, exacerbation of lung disease including asthma and emphysema, and various forms of cancer. Air pollution particularly impacts the elderly, infants and children, and those already suffering from lung disease.

VEHICLE EMISSIONS BLAMED FOR 20,000 DEATHS A YEAR IN 3 EUROPEANCOUNTRIES; CALIFORNIANS WORRIED ABOUT LINK BETWEEN ENVIRONMENT AND HEALTH

Contact: Andrew Weisser (818) 703-6444, aweisser@earthlink.net
or your local American Lung Association at (800) LUNG-USA www.californialung.org

[Publius6961]

It makes it impossible to go in or out without getting smoke on you.

This is neurosis writ large.
Why do you not smell like gasoline when you walk in traffic?
Why do you not smell like fish when you go to the market?

Are you suggesting now that transferring an unwanted odor is a crime? If I hate your perfume am I entitled to have you arrested?

[SheLion]

VEHICLE EMISSIONS BLAMED FOR 20,000 DEATHS A YEAR IN 3 EUROPEANCOUNTRIES; CALIFORNIANS WORRIED ABOUT LINK BETWEEN ENVIRONMENT AND HEALTH

This is really interesting!  Thanks for posting this!

[Publius6961]

The following is from one guy in Illinois and what HE is doing: (I wonder how they found you, since the orders were sent to your friends home, and not yours? Did the notice come to your address or to your friends?)

This is brilliant!
No, not the way this story is described, but the whole concept.
Are you aware if FOIA exists in all states? or just Illinois?
The wooden stake to drive through the bureaucracy has just been discovered. The silver bullet.

Awaiting your response with much excitement...