Posted on 03/08/2006 4:46:43 PM PST by Daralundy
"we can never win the friendship of these people if they believe our words of respect for their religion cover up a sneering contempt"
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They want us dead or Dhimmi you idiot. We can never win their friendship except under those circumstances. Censoring our press while allowing them to do all manner of evil against all that are not them is just incredibly stupid. But then, you Mr. Buchanan, are incredibly stupid.
Long war ? What long war ? If we turned things really on (but remaining conventional) it could be over within a couple of months.
That said, it is not *US* that are attacking anyone's culture. You don't see us saying "be tolerant or die", or "behead those who say we're violent". This is being brought to our door. And god help them and us if they make us cross that line. We wouldn't be able to forgive ourselves for a generation. But at least there would be the next generations of Western civilization and enlightenment.
As every greenpisser can tell, the planet is seriously overpopulated. Especially when they breed like rabbits.
This is like two children fighting and when you ask them what is going on, both yell "He started it!!!"
The fact is, there are probably a LOT of nice, peaceful muslims in the world and slapping all of them across the face is not beneficial to anyone's position.
On the other hand, simply waving hi to some of them will start an uproar and one thing leads to another and away the fight is flying.
We have to be effective and sorting the idiots out on both sides and condemning them. The 1st amendment carries responsibility with it.
Let me explain, I was at a basketball game once while in high school and our predominantly white team was playing a predominantly black team. One of the guys from our school went up to the bleachers in front of the opposing team, flipped them the bird and yelled F*** you N******s!!!!
Needless to say, it took the police about 2 hours to clean up the situation.
He has first amendment rights, but at some point we should all acknowledge that he failed in his responsibility to recognize that his words would lead to a violent situation.
Now putting up these cartoons is more subtle because it only draws violence from the reactionaries, but it still offends the majority of muslims. It doesn't deserve arrest, but it does deserve contempt.
Very well said, excellent. Thank you.
Pat, how does one "make nice" with a culture that wants to see all Americans dead? This is not an evolved group of people who want to peacably coexist with the West. I'm getting to the point where I just don't care about "moderate" Muslims and catering to the "reasonable ones". The so called moderate Muslims have done NOTHING to stop this perversion of their faith. Their silence is approval of the actions of the extremists.
Koran "5.51": O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.
This is becoming increasingly difficult and not because of our actions. My Thai friends spouted the above rhetoric with great sincerity and Buddhist equanimity over a year ago. At that time, the Muslims there were beheading Buddhist Monks, School teachers and Muslims who cooperated with the government. There are just a few bad apples, they said. Now, after entire Muslim villages have joined together to torture and kill young soldiers, kill Buddhists living in their midst and bombing restaurants, the Muslims have escalated to attacking and burning Buddhist villages. The killing rate is 2 to 4 each day. This has accomplished one thing. My friends are no longer talking about the "peaceful majority". There isn't one.
Screw Pat Buchanan... Nuke Mecca and stop it today...
How can you say that nuking Mecca would "stop it today"? That would only enrage one hundred percent of the Muslims in the world and make this a thousand years MORE war. You are way too radical. Thank God people like you don't call the shots.
Buchanan is wrong. Freedom trumps prophet. I think it was stupid to print the cartoons, I also think it was essential to reprint them so people would realize how stupid the riots were. And we all know (all but Buchanan) that the riots weren't about the cartoons anyway, but about Islamic law subjugating the free world.
I'm surprised that it took Pat this long to surrender.
Not exactly breaking news.
;-)
I'm getting to the point where I agree that the moderate Muslims are of no help. However there has been an occasional brave one who speaks out. Their silence, which is deafening at times, could be related to fear and\or tacit approval;who the hell knows which? Their whole entire religion needs a true REFORMATION. I have little or no faith that will happen. I do think Mr. Buchanan is correct that you should not insult their religion, the cartoons have had a negative effect in general.
Patrick simply does not understand freedom of speech. It may be a moral good to be respectful of others, but it should not be legally required. No one has a right not to be offended by others. Courtesy and politeness cannot and should not be legislated, and any law will be selectively and hypocritically enforced. Pat certainly did not learn the lesson of Salman Rushdie.
He has first amendment rights, but at some point we should all acknowledge that he failed in his responsibility to recognize that his words actions would lead to a violent situation.
Yeah, oh damn, huh?
Now putting up these cartoons burning American flags is more subtle because it only draws violence from the reactionaries, but it still offends the majority of muslims Americans. It doesn't deserve arrest, but it does deserve contempt.
So what's it going to be then, eh? Are Muslims to be held to the same standard as everyone else, or not? Are you willing to treat them like adults, or treat every riot that they start as some unavoidable force of nature, some inevitable consequence of something that "we" did, rather than a conscious choice that came about through human agency?
Part of being civilized is not expecting people to pamper you and never question anything you say or do. Part of being civilized is having the ability to be criticized and not respond with a temper tantrum. Want to know who I actually do have respect for? The Muslims that didn't riot. They're on the ball. The ones that reacted to a criticism of their beliefs by burning embassies down have a ways to go.
I agree that the moderate Muslims are of no help. However there has been an occasional brave one who speaks out. Their silence, which is deafening at times, could be related to fear and\or tacit approval;who the hell knows which? Their whole entire religion needs a true REFORMATION.
What they need is more outside sources of information. Many of their societies are very insular, and they get most of their information from the local Imam.
What they need is satellite TV. That'll straighten them out in no time!
I couldn't agree more and your words,to me, are extremely wise and basically the bottom line. I don't think the average Muslim has evolved nearly enough to grasp your words, unfortunately. Could you please tell me just what is (was) the "lesson of Salman Rusdie"? I know he wrote "Satanic Verses" and was ordered to be killed by some fatwah, I guess you would call it, way back in the late 1980's I think.
Without that idol they pray to every day, Islam is over. No pilgrimage to that black rock, nothing to pray to.
It would prove to them and the rest of the world their phantasm they created is not omnipotent.
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That would only enrage one hundred percent of the Muslims in the world and make this a thousand years MORE war.
As if they aren't already enraged somehow... No, the war would last about an hour, maybe two, when they realize somebody is done f---ing around with them.
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You are way too dumb...
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Thank God people like you...
Thank which God? The one that nuked Sodom?
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